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How to lower a W-Body ( Gen 1, Gen 1.5 )

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take out your whole rear suspension and install a complete rear suspension from a 1.5 Gen Lumina/Monte Carlo...then you could use lowering springs in the rear.

 

Has anyone here done this? How many hours does it take?

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take out your whole rear suspension and install a complete rear suspension from a 1.5 Gen Lumina/Monte Carlo...then you could use lowering springs in the rear.

 

Has anyone here done this? How many hours does it take?

 

I just registered on this place so I figured I'd post here even if its just a sticky.

 

In response to the last guy, I wouldn't recommend converting a rear monoleaf to a 1.5 gen lumina/monte carlo suspension. The strut mounts simply aren't made for that kind of force and you're likely to permanently destroy the rear of your car in a few years with a coilover conversion.

 

Personally, here's what I've done to my suspension on my 1995 Regal Coupe:

 

1. Suspension Techniques front lowered springs. These gave me about 2.0" of travel, and I love them aside from the fact that they're a bit soft. I would have preferred a stiffer spring. Oh well, I really can't complain for $80 a pair.

 

2. Front sway bar polyurethane bushings. These helped cornering a LOT over the stock bushings, which had been used up to 120,000 miles. Go figure... $40 for all 4 bushings.

 

3. Rear flex-a-form custom fiberglass monoleaf with a 2" drop. I was extremely pleased with the results this spring gave me. It was just the drop I wanted and much stiffer than the original spring. I was very happy with it. $350 for the whole spring, shipped.

 

4. Addco Part #474 7/8" rear sway bar with polyurethane bushings. $148 for the leaf shipped, and an extra $20 for sway bar bushings since they forgot to send me 2 of the bushings.

 

I'm going to try to find better shocks some time soon, but for now the car corners extremely well and handles absolutely great.

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I've been running a converted monoleaf car for over a year with zero flex or problems. Countless other members have been doing the same. The steel is the same stamp as the gen 1.5 MCs and Luminas. Provided the shock towers are braced at the top, there's nothing to destroy.

 

The monoleaf works great on vettes, it wasn't such a hot idea for the Ws, which is why GM turfed it.

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The metal on the rear strut towers was over-built by GM. This is a design so that incase the mono-leaf falied, the metal could support the weight. Ive known many mono-leafs to fail. If the metal wasnt thick enough the car would be fucked. All the ones Ive seen are all greater than 1/4" thick. Also the mono leaf does not support as much weight as one would think. To use this as reasoning as to why your not going with coilovers is bullshit IMHO. GM may hav designed some things that arnt worth a shit, but when it comes the structural members of their cars, they are all over-built.

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take out your whole rear suspension and install a complete rear suspension from a 1.5 Gen Lumina/Monte Carlo...then you could use lowering springs in the rear.

 

Has anyone here done this? How many hours does it take?

 

I've done essentially that, but I was never able to determine for certain whether or not the crossmember bolts up properly (didn't have any 1.5s around to compare with)...

 

I've you just doing an all out overhaul swap without any fussing with the parts in between, you could probably pull something like this off in about 6 to 8 hours. But, that's me, and I'm fussy, so maybe less.

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I got a set of 96+ front assemblies to swap into my car. im going to use the lowering springs and KYBs from the stock assemblies, but im going to try cutting a set of stock springs (i have 2 sets now, one from a 96 GP and one from 1.5G FE3) and put them in the 91 assemblies and see how it pans out after i get the rear of the car lowered.

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I'm basically going by what I read on the w-body homepage, and by what I've heard from other people. I've heard of (yet again rumors) of some people having issues with the coilover conversions. At the very minimum, they have been reported to be considerably louder.

 

For the record, my new monoleaf is much stiffer and seems to be able to support a lot more weight than the stock monoleaf.

 

Here's what I read about coilovers from the homepage:

 

A coilover conversion requires removal of your stock monoleaf spring and installing custom struts that have a conventional coil spring tightly wound around the strut. Most all coilover kits allow for adjustable ride height. This method is not without risk, because the rear wheel wells were not designed to withstand the force that coilover springs will exert on them. I have seen cutaways of rear strut towers of junkyard cars, and the strut towers of a car designed with coil springs (95-99 Lumina) has almost 3x the metal thickness and reinforcements compared to a first-gen W-body. Metal fatigue in the wheel well area has been rumored (but not documented with photos or proof) by the use of coilover conversions. Since the wheel wells are an integral part of the unibody frame, metal fatigue in that area can essentially "total out" the car. However, in real life applications, numerous people have used coilovers, some for a number of years without noticing any problems. Even if you are convinced that coilovers are perfectly safe and you want them, be aware that several owners of coilovers have reported significant increase in suspension noise. The TDC coilovers in particular have been known to unload and unseat in hard cornering or large bumps. After installing coilovers on the rear, you may find it desirable to upgrade the wimpy 12mm rear sway bar. We got away with such a wimpy rear sway bar because the transverse monoleaf itself reduces body roll.

 

 

When considering pros and cons, I'd argue that unless you want adjustable ride height, there really isn't much of a reason to use a coilover conversion on a 1st-gen w-body that came with a monoleaf. As far as I can tell, you can get monoleafs with different load ratings and heights built to specification, and the fact that they themselves reduce body roll is something to consider. I'll note just on the side that I experience very very little body roll even on very hard turns in excess of .50 G's with the 7/8" sway bar and the lowered monoleaf.

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I got a set of 96+ front assemblies to swap into my car. im going to use the lowering springs and KYBs from the stock assemblies, but im going to try cutting a set of stock springs (i have 2 sets now, one from a 96 GP and one from 1.5G FE3) and put them in the 91 assemblies and see how it pans out after i get the rear of the car lowered.

 

Are you actually going to attempt to cut coils off the springs?

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I got a set of 96+ front assemblies to swap into my car. im going to use the lowering springs and KYBs from the stock assemblies, but im going to try cutting a set of stock springs (i have 2 sets now, one from a 96 GP and one from 1.5G FE3) and put them in the 91 assemblies and see how it pans out after i get the rear of the car lowered.

 

Are you actually going to attempt to cut coils off the springs?

im not sure how much im going to cut off, but im sure it wont be more than 1 coil. im just going to test it out on local roads. its more for shits and giggles to see how low i can get the car.

 

 

 

about the coilovers: i didnt have any noise unless the coil was turned wrong. i dont think theres a problem with out shock towers. i didnt have any problems with mine. i thought in order to get a lower drop (more inches) from a FAF leaf, you had to get a lower rate (like 150 for 2.5" or something like that). i would actually rather have a FAF leaf than coilovers, but i dont want a lower spring rate and get the wrong height. that is my fear with them.

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I got a set of 96+ front assemblies to swap into my car. im going to use the lowering springs and KYBs from the stock assemblies, but im going to try cutting a set of stock springs (i have 2 sets now, one from a 96 GP and one from 1.5G FE3) and put them in the 91 assemblies and see how it pans out after i get the rear of the car lowered.

 

Are you actually going to attempt to cut coils off the springs?

im not sure how much im going to cut off, but im sure it wont be more than 1 coil. im just going to test it out on local roads. its more for shits and giggles to see how low i can get the car.

 

Yeah I see what you're saying. I ordered my FAF leaf with a 2" lowered specification, though it came closer to 2.5", and is much stiffer than the stock spring I had on, so I'd imagine they do have the option of sending you a lower spring with a higher stiffness. At first I was surprised since it looked smaller and much less flexed than the stock spring was when I compared them, but once I had it put on I was amazed at the difference it made. By comparison, my suspension techniques front springs are too soft now.

 

 

about the coilovers: i didnt have any noise unless the coil was turned wrong. i dont think theres a problem with out shock towers. i didnt have any problems with mine. i thought in order to get a lower drop (more inches) from a FAF leaf, you had to get a lower rate (like 150 for 2.5" or something like that). i would actually rather have a FAF leaf than coilovers, but i dont want a lower spring rate and get the wrong height. that is my fear with them.

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I say there is NO structural problems with converting to coil overs. There is already a strut there that has weight bared on it. The weight distribution on our cars is far from 50/50, so with less than half the weight in the back, you factor in that the struts and mono leaf are holding that part of the weight, the mono leaf is probably holding less than 15% of the cars full weight on either side.

Yes the strut towers will be holding more weight, but I've checked out the metal, it no less thick than the metal on the front strut towers, and those 2 towers hold probably 60% of the cars weight between the 2 of them. If the front towers can do it for that much weight, the rears should have no problem at all. Especailly if you add in a RSTB.

 

I'm ordering a full set of Helds (probably placing my order tomorrow). If I have any problems with clunking or banging I will figure out where its coming from and solve the problem. I think the biggest problem people have is the spring coming out of the seat and then not seating properly when it comes back together. Then when it pops into place you get the clunk. Under normal DD conditions, no one is going to push their cars this hard (I should hope) And if your at the track, who's concerned about comfort, so it clunks, big deal, your cornering like a corvette! lol

 

just my opinion

 

Jamie

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im not sure how much im going to cut off, but im sure it wont be more than 1 coil. im just going to test it out on local roads. its more for shits and giggles to see how low i can get the car.

 

How exactly are you going to cut our coil springs and still get them to fit in the insulators properly?

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im not sure how much im going to cut off, but im sure it wont be more than 1 coil. im just going to test it out on local roads. its more for shits and giggles to see how low i can get the car.

 

How exactly are you going to cut our coil springs and still get them to fit in the insulators properly?

 

The rubber seat can move. So you can just rotate the rubber seat to accomodate the spring. The rubber seat and the spring pearch are seperate

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i looked at it today and if i cut a 1/2 coil outof the top, it should still fit on the top mount. i will have to modify the rubber part, though. i may as well try it, i have 3 sets of springs and 2 assemblies

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Hi everyone my name is Deia. I just got done doing an L67 swap on my regal and was looking into lowering it possibly. I saw these springs on Summit Racing and want to know if they will work for the rear and if they look like a good spring. They are progressive rate springs.

 

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HAL%2D12%2D175%2D350&N=700+4294846689+4294791365+4294868465+115&autoview=sku

 

Also, will this sleeve kit work with the KYB struts and if so which is best 5 or 7"? Is that possibly a spring mount I see in the picture? If not has anyone finalized a design and produced it? I will buy the spring mount if someone has made any.

 

7inch

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=AFC%2D20125A%2D7&N=700+%2D160177+115&autoview=sku

 

5inch

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=AFC%2D20125A&N=700+%2D160177+115&autoview=sku

 

I would like to do coilovers on the front but still am not sure just what is involved and needed. With the L67 in a 91 regal do the ST springs drop it 3" still? I am really only looking for 2inches. Thanks, Deia

 

 

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damnit, newb, did you read the coilover links in the top post? :lol: just messing with ya. i would get a 7" just to be safe, but youre probably not going to need it, just a 5". those coils are ones i mentioned in one of those link posts and are the ones im going to use when i do mine. as long as the ID is 2.5", it will work. i know 12" springs will work, but im not sure if anything taller will or not. that kit has more than you will use. you just need a nut and sleeve. the other stuff will not work, as far as im aware. for the fronts, you need to make some sort of mount, but the rear, you can use the stockers. scroll down to see pics of the mounts you get with a held kit: http://www.w-body.com/forum/index.php/topic,61157.30.html and, yes, you can use the KYB struts, youll just have to possibly remove the collar that the boot thingy slides over. i got about 3" out of mine w/ ST springs, custom coilovers, and 245/45 16 tires, but thats on a 96 B4U, so yours would prob be different. if you go with stock size of equivalent, you probably will get closer to 2". the eibach springs might not get you as low, either. you might want to have custom axles made for the L67 swap and lowering.

 

welcome and i wanna see some pics of the car :biggrin:

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If I tke a rear 1.5Gen to put on my 94' GTP... I can just take the upermout strut to bolt on the coilover of 1.5 gen ? beceause de first gen have only 2 bolt on top and 1.5 have 3 bolt .. :S

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just found a possible solution to the coilover unloading problem. eibach has what they call a helper springs that goes on top of your regular springs to keep it in place. it has very little spring rate so it doesnt affect the performance, just keeps the spring in place. part number is "helper 250" http://www.ground-control-store.com/products/description.php/II=493/CA=33

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its only 3 inches long and at full shock extension w/ a 12" spring, that should be just about right, i would think. thats just judging by how my 96, was though, and the ring was only about a half-inch from the bottom of the sleeve. youd have to measure to be sure. it will also help from the coil slamming back down when it compresses quickly after being fully extended. i never had a problem w/ my coilovers, either, using the stock upper mount as far as the spring unloading, but i think this would be a good thing to have. however, ill probably being going cheap when i do mine and just get the regular spring, but i might add that later.

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The adjuster ring on my car is about 3" fron the bottom of the sleeve, and ive only got about a 2" wheel gap. But if youve got bushings top and bottom of the spring, thatll protect all the mounts and the adjuster nut. That springs doesnt seem like a bad idea, but the only thing I can really see it doing is keeping the spring from coming unseated. ( which may be the same thinkg your talking about :lol: )

 

But the other issue is what keeps this aligned with the current spring? It seems like if you hit the right bump, this spring would be at an angle to the other..

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thats kinda what im talking about. mine always came apart from the top mount (i guess thats what people mean by being "unseated"), but mine didnt clunk or bind like others have complained about.

 

you have to use the "spacer 250" with it (not sure how it works exactly): http://www.ground-control-store.com/products/description.php/II=11/CA=33

 

 

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