Guest TurboSedan Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 ok i got my T25 turbo and both coolant lines from Intlcutlass (thanks!), but i can't figure out where the coolant return line connects to. i have the supply line from the TB heater pipe and the smaller line to the turbo figured out, but the return line? where does it go? TIA joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse5302 Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 It T's in to the Driver side coolant hose that goes to the oil cooler. See? If you look near the oil filter you can see where it goes... Just use some hose clamps and a metal T and you should be good. Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 Thats actually the coolant feed by the oil cooler! The return believe it or not is the one you can easily see up top! Coolant flows into the front of the block around the cylinder bores, up through the heads and out the 'back' of the intake. From the back of the intake it has several options. First it can go through the throttle body. This is the regular bypass route the coolant will take when the thermostat is closed, and on an NA engine is the ONLY bypass. It flows into the throttle body from right under the thermostat housing and back to the water pump through the line we see on top. It can also flow through the heater core from this location, however, this is controlled by a secondary thermostat that is part of the main thermostat. I don't know what temp it opens at but it doesn' t always flow, so the heater circuit is not a good choice for a bypass. It leaves the heater core and wraps all the way around the back of the engine bay, under the passenger side rail, and up to the top of the water pump housing. Now on the TGP there are other consistent bypass routes for the coolant. These come from the water tap in the side of the block, where the coolant is relatively cold. Coolant picks up most of its heat in the cylinder head. Coolant flows out of the block and either through the oil cooler or the turbo. It leaves the oil cooler and returns to the water pump via a pipe "T" placed inline with the heater core return line. The turbo gets its water supply via the small hose and pipe underneath and flows out the top of the turbo to the TGP specific TB return line. So the turbo, TB heater core and oil cooler all return to the fitting on top of the water pump. It is theoretically OK, to cap off the TB heater hoses because the TGP bypasses through these other routes, however, I don't really recommend it. An engine needs a bypass route because it helps to keep the water at a consistent temperature and reduces strain on the water pump when the 'stat is closed. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 Yes Chris BUT, I need to add something ...............I want to add that you did an EXCELLENT JOB at all those details and the information, well done !!! That's all, sike Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 Eclipse, in that pic are those blue plug wires from Jacobs??? If so can I ask a favor (others might like this info too), can you take an ohm reading on one going to either the 2, 4 or 6 cylinder (easiest to reach), or a couple of those??? I have readings on stock and want to compare, and some Magnacores so that I will have that data available (with credit given) on these to show on my web site as I fill it up here soon! Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse5302 Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 I would Jeff, but those are the cheap ones from Autozone. I just needed something to put on the car until I had the cash for the better ones. Thats my Cutlass engine...the one I bought for $250 including turbo! Also Jeff, as for my hard starting/knock problem on my TSTE, it was the NEW ignition control module. If you probe the pin C9 on the ECM plug with a voltmeter to ground with ignition on it shoud read 0. Mine read 12 volts. I replaced it, and it starts great now. Kinda werid, since it's a 3 month old part. I guess it's time to install wing nuts on the ICM/coils so I don't have to spend as muhc time changing it out. Not that it took long, about 30min to swap coils/ICM. And I haven't had a code 43 yet...since I wiggled the wiring near the ICM a while ago. I'm assuming it's a weak wire or plug in that circuit. Once it gets nice out (yea right, we just got 6 inches of snow and it's still going) I'll look into it further. Thanx for describing coolant flow Chris. I have never been told how the coolant actually works on the 3.1. Now I know! It is strange though, that the upper would be the return. You'd think the lower would be the return. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 Awww shucks... embarass me :oops: Thanks! It took a good while to figure it out. I thought it was weird that the upper lines were the return as well, but it was the timing cover that clued me in. i knew the lower rad hose was the return, and the fitting on top shares the same port with the lower rad, at the back of the water pump cartridge. So they all had to be the returns for their respective circuits. I discovered this trying to determine the effects of blocking off the tb lines. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 Also Jeff, as for my hard starting/knock problem on my TSTE, it was the NEW ignition control module. If you probe the pin C9 on the ECM plug with a voltmeter to ground with ignition on it shoud read 0. Mine read 12 volts. I replaced it, and it starts great now. Kinda werid, since it's a 3 month old part. I guess it's time to install wing nuts on the ICM/coils so I don't have to spend as muhc time changing it out. Not that it took long, about 30min to swap coils/ICM. And I haven't had a code 43 yet...since I wiggled the wiring near the ICM a while ago. I'm assuming it's a weak wire or plug in that circuit. Once it gets nice out (yea right, we just got 6 inches of snow and it's still going) I'll look into it further. Glad to get an update, and more so that you found your problem, that will give my emails and PM a rest :-). That makes sense, when the ingiton module goes out, the default settings to get you to run (after a lot of cranking) will trigger the code 43, lets hope that is it. I have seen plug wires come apart inside the ends, where it is tough to see until you either yank hard enough to pull the wire out of the boot (oops, got a spare wire?) or cut the thing open and see it detached inside, or find the wire end/connector still left on the plug end, found just such a problem on a guys TGP at his graduation party, even though we killed his plug wire, he was happy we found his engine miss. Also but sure you thought of this, its easy to mix the spark plug wires up on the coils, they still do work but only half-ass, enough to bug ya, if you look closely at the label on the front clip, there is a pic of the ing coil spark plug wiring arrangement. Now you are getting closer to run at the track! Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperRed90TGp Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 joshua, Here's another possibility. Gets rid of the pipes going across the engine. Hardest part is bending the coolant return line into a U shape. I had to do it twice cuse I crushed the first one. I used coper tubing and made it longer so the tubing cleared the bottom of the turbo so the hose wasen't near the heat. Parts stores have these tubes so you don't have to flare tubing. Tee's also. Dealer can still get the oiler coler hoses. Good time to replace them if you use this route. Here's some pic's http://photo.starblvd.net/sleeperred90tgp?st=album&pg=1&ro=0&co=3&logout=1&pw=*525C3E660B9B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse5302 Posted March 6, 2003 Report Share Posted March 6, 2003 or find the wire end/connector still left on the plug end, I did that on a 3.4 DOHC with crappy wires. The metal plug stayed on the spark plug end. Good luck trying to get a pair or pliers to grab that sucka off, 5 inches in the hole. Man that sucked! Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted March 6, 2003 Report Share Posted March 6, 2003 or find the wire end/connector still left on the plug end, I did that on a 3.4 DOHC with crappy wires. The metal plug stayed on the spark plug end. Good luck trying to get a pair or pliers to grab that sucka off, 5 inches in the hole. Man that sucked! Jason Ohhh, you're right, I did not think about it with a 3.4, that would be a nightmare. I imagine the metal plug stopped you from being able to use a spark plug socket to take it out, that would be a pain! Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse5302 Posted March 6, 2003 Report Share Posted March 6, 2003 Yup, couldn't get a socket on it, and I had long neddle nose pliers, and they wouldn't even get down the hole easily. To make matters worse, IT WAS A REAR PLUG! It would have been too easy if it were right up front. Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian89gp Posted March 6, 2003 Report Share Posted March 6, 2003 On the front it is possible with a very long set of needle nose pliers, but on the rear you have to remove the plenum to get to the hole. I learned both of these the hard way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebelGT Posted March 21, 2003 Report Share Posted March 21, 2003 reguarding turbo feed lines, let me get this straight if i could. This is how i see it, correct me if i'm wrong please! The farthest to the left, coming off the bottom, thats the coolant return Next to the right, thats a rubber hose, thats the oil return, goes into the oil pan. Next with the steel flex line, thats the oil feed, which hooks up somewhere near the oil filter on the block. Then theres the coolant feed all the way to the right, which picks up the water from the metal coolant pipe on top of the front exhaust manifold. I'm not really sure, so please, correct me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS91Z34 Posted March 21, 2003 Report Share Posted March 21, 2003 Grab a long extension and break the porcelain off the plug and use a magnet and pull that piece out. Alot of us dont have those kind of pliers. The set i just got cost about 120 bucks. I got them specifically for the 3.4L , I work on alot of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted March 21, 2003 Report Share Posted March 21, 2003 SleeperRed90TGp, dude, that oil splash shield you made is awesome, you really should make up a bunch of those and sell them!!! I only did the following to help the oil draining mess, not as good though; covered over the subframe holes that like to suck up the draining oil and allow it to run out other places (what a mess), then coat the subframe (wanted to do all of it anyways) with smooth drying spray truck bed liner, then run a bead of caulk and make a trough to keep the oil from spreading and only run into the oil catch pan. But not much of that is needed to address oil drainage into the oil catch pan as slick as your drain shield!! Sweet idea, I might if you don’t, make some up like this to offer to those who can’t bend, don’t have the tools or the know-how, or just don’t want to bother and instead get it made up for them (that SAME concept is for all the stuff I sell). Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted March 21, 2003 Report Share Posted March 21, 2003 reguarding turbo feed lines, let me get this straight if i could.This is how i see it, correct me if i'm wrong please! The farthest to the left, coming off the bottom, thats the coolant return Next to the right, thats a rubber hose, thats the oil return, goes into the oil pan. Next with the steel flex line, thats the oil feed, which hooks up somewhere near the oil filter on the block. Then theres the coolant feed all the way to the right, which picks up the water from the metal coolant pipe on top of the front exhaust manifold. I'm not really sure, so please, correct me. The line to the farthest right is the coolant return (trust me) The large rubber line is the oil drain back. The line with the braided stainless hose is the oil feed the other line is the coolant feed. chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebelGT Posted March 22, 2003 Report Share Posted March 22, 2003 the oil drain hose doesn't look long enough to make it to the pan, is there an extension or something? Not that it matters, i'll just replace the hose anyway, just wondering how the stock setup was put togethor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted March 22, 2003 Report Share Posted March 22, 2003 Yes there is an extension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebelGT Posted March 22, 2003 Report Share Posted March 22, 2003 Is that just a pan with a hole drilled in it, and the tubing torqued to it w/ a gasket, or is there a fitting welded in the pan? If its just a hole, are those pipes still available? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted March 23, 2003 Report Share Posted March 23, 2003 it appears to have a flange welded to the pan with studs, then the pipe is attached to that. I don' t know if the pipes are still avail, kinda doubt it. But I wouldn't go there anyway, you can get the same result without dropping dough at the dealer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse5302 Posted March 23, 2003 Report Share Posted March 23, 2003 Anybody know what they use for a gasket for that flange? I decided to change the "gasket" in my Cutlass with a standard o-ring, and it leaks now. I could of swore that the "gasket" I took off was a crushed down o-ring. Any ideas? Maybe a larger o-ring (the one I used was quite thick)? Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse5302 Posted March 25, 2003 Report Share Posted March 25, 2003 I take it no one knows what gasket is used here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperRed90TGp Posted April 3, 2003 Report Share Posted April 3, 2003 Jeff, I just read your post regarding the drip pan. Sorry I didn't see it sooner but New Orleans kept us busy for the last week and I thought turbo coolant lines was finished. I will have 20 of these pans in about a week and a half. Ordered them from a local shop before I went to New O. Three are spoken for. Price for these first 20 is about $22.50 do to there $250.00 minimum. I can get 40 made and save $2.50, lead time 4 to 6 weeks. That would make the pan $20.00. Seams pricey to me but I dont have alot of shops to choose from In fact this one is 20 miles away. I can't believe it costs $5.25 to ship a 6x6 box with mostly air in it 4 day ground. Who do use to ship your products? I'll be posting price and delivery along with a picture when I get them. I am also working with them on the coil bracket. Figure I'll get one done before I start another. Jud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted April 4, 2003 Report Share Posted April 4, 2003 Yeah, shipping is getting expensive. My average cost has gone from $6 to $9 mostly small parts. Add in boxing costs etc etc and it gets to be unruly. UPS is pretty quick and consistent though and far more convienent than USPS. I get PO'd every time I go to the post office. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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