tdaye Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 i'm Terry btw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 i'm Terry btw Oops sorry Terry, thanks for clearing me up on that I don't know where that "Taylor" name came from in my skull cavity . Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 As promised, here are the pics taken from my camera phone. I measured the front vs. rear, and there is exactly 1/2" rake. If it settles another 1/4", that'll be plenty close enough. For those who are a little pickier, the bushings are very thick and could be shaved down a bit as well. [attachment deleted by admin] Removed to free up storage space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdaye Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 looks good! have you measured from the wheel well to the center of the rim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 I did, but I forgot to remember the exact measurement... I only remembered they were 1/2" apart front to rear! I'll measure again after awhile. BUT a minor setback! I was wondering why the ride over small bumps was good, but over large bumps the rear end would make banging sounds. I blamed the Addco rear sway bar (haven't gotten around to switching it out for the new design yet). However, the answer came to me as I lay in bed last night before I fell asleep. The bumpstops! Today, I pulled down the dust covers and sure enough, less than 1/4" between strut and bumpstops! These were Moog or Monroe (can't remember) aftermarket ones that seem unusually long, so most W owners might not have this problem. I'm going to have to cut them down, but the way the dust cover mounts, it'll be better to cut down from the top (not to mention the tops of them are already half torn out of the mounts).That means I'll have to pull the struts. Might as well install the new design Addco bar while I'm at it. Ugh. It's in the 90's out there and I was really hoping to be lazy this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdaye Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 yea I had to cut out about 2" from the top of my bumpstops and that still only gives me around 2.5" clearance...when i go over big bumps I think mine might be still hitting. If I was to have ppl in the back seats I would be riding on the bumpstops again for sure. Mine are KYB mounts and boots as well as the struts. I didn't pull my struts to cut mine, i got a very sharp pair of snippers and cut them out and then re-attached the strut boots with plastic ties to the strut mounts. (bumpstops are the hard rubber things at the top between the mounts and boots?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 I cut out 2 sections from the top of the bumpstops, think that's enough? I have no idea how much suspension travel we really need. Cutting the top of the bumpstop to fit up in the mount didn't work out, it's old and crumbled, so I ended up siliconing it to the mount since I'm too cheap to buy new ones to cut up. Probably not necessary, but I don't really want too much of the strut shaft exposed. I needed to pull my struts anyway. Turns out, my Addco sway bar WAS making metal-to-metal contact (gotta pull at least 1 strut to get it out), so I'm not sure whether the noises are from that, or the bumpstops. Either way, my rear suspension was in bad shape. Yeah, bumpstops are the hard yellow/tan rubbery foam things between the mounts and boots. GM calls them "jounce bumpers" but bumpstop is less typing. It's kind of interesting that even with all this trouble to lower it, it's still only about the stock height of a European or Japanese import. To get more drop out of it would require more extreme modifications to the mounts and such. I guess GM designed these cars to ride at 4x4 height. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdaye Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 I only took out one section on mine but the could be different size then your's...I think on mine there are only 2 in total. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 Alright, it's all done, but there's still a slight clunking on hard bumps. I think the Addco may be touching somewhere else. Not sure on that though. Something that kind of sucked is one of the rubber end bushings pulled off the FAF spring when I jacked the car up, but it seated back when I lowered it so I'm hoping it doesn't fall out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdaye Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 Oh, I told George that I thought that was a bad design and shouldn't use them. I thought that they would wear down fast riding in the perches. With the poly ones the spring would ride on them and not in the perches. The first spring I got from him had them and they were bolted to the spring, the bolts where rubbing in the perches and making a lot of noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCGUY112887 Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 How much are these again? I thought I saw $300 earlier in this thread but that just doesn't seem right for a piece of fiberglass... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdaye Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 it is $300 (Canadian, is what I paid) and it is just a piece of fiberglass but he needs to make these from a custom mold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 Oh, I told George that I thought that was a bad design and shouldn't use them. I thought that they would wear down fast riding in the perches. With the poly ones the spring would ride on them and not in the perches. The first spring I got from him had them and they were bolted to the spring, the bolts where rubbing in the perches and making a lot of noise. Bolted! That probably wouldn't be a very good idea. The first one I got from him 2yrs ago was glued on like the one I just got from him. For some reason, the adhesive used on the first one seemed better, I never had any of the rubber bushings come off. It's actually not a bad design, it's the way OEM ones are done too. The one I pulled had been on there 2yrs and there is no noticeable wear. OEM ones also usually last over a decade before the bushings need replacement. How much are these again? I thought I saw $300 earlier in this thread but that just doesn't seem right for a piece of fiberglass... Yeah, $300. CDN$300 is a better deal, I had to pay US$300! It's expensive, but it's cheaper than coilovers. No W-body lowering solution is really cheap, although I think the Birchmount spring is the cheapest. George seems pretty flexible, you might be able to get a better deal if you call him up and barter with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdaye Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 I think I paid around $250 for my steel one installed and I really didn't have a problem paying $300 for this spring. The difference in ride quality is HUGE between the 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 Yeah, $300. CDN$300 is a better deal, I had to pay US$300! It's expensive, but it's cheaper than coilovers. No W-body lowering solution is really cheap, although I think the Birchmount spring is the cheapest. George seems pretty flexible, you might be able to get a better deal if you call him up and barter with him. dang, i'm gonna have to stick with FFP @ $310. the advantages of coilovers just outweigh the $10 more i'll be spending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 dang, i'm gonna have to stick with FFP @ $310. the advantages of coilovers just outweigh the $10 more i'll be spending. Other than adjustable height, which is pointless when the front end is fixed, what other advantage is there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 yeah, the main reason is that with coilovers it's a sure bet that i can have a car with no rake regardless of which front springs i use. it's also easier to work on the rear suspension with no monoleaf to compress or remove/install. that's all i did yesterday - tore apart the rear suspension on both my Cutlass and TSTE. my Cutlass was sooo much easier to deal with since it already has coilovers. the questionable quality of the FAF spring also turn me off. the spring looked lopsided before installation, end bushings falling off etc. then there is the issue of actually getting a hold of George just to order the spring. i wouldn't want to have to constantly bug him via phone/numerous emails just so i can give the guy money. if the FAF spring were $200 i'd probably try it, but being that it's basically the same price as coilovers i can't justify the risk when i already know i'd be happy with coilovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 Actually, the FAF spring makes working on the car easier too! The FAF has so little arc that when you jack it up, there's very little pressure on the knuckles so you can pull the struts or any other parts without compressing the spring. You can even swap springs without compressing them. Before, it was impossible to swap out struts without compressing the OEM spring, but the FAF makes it easy. The lopsided appearance is really rather minor, the car does appear to sit perfectly level. The bushing coming off... could be a rare occurrence. My 2yr old FAF spring still has both its bushings and they seem pretty well adhered. In fact, I think it's the lack of arc that made the bushing come off so easily. When I jacked up the car, the pads come off the bottom of their perches and the sides of the rubber bushing actually starts rubbing along the inside of the knuckle. That looks like how it got pulled off in the first place. I can understand what you mean though. I got annoyed trying to contact George after 3 phone calls and he wasn't there. In hindsight, I probably should have bought coilovers because someday someone may come up with front coilovers and that way I could get to the height I want. I'd really like to lower it even 2" more than it is to where the very tops of the tire tuck into the fenders like lowered Mercedes and BMW's do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdaye Posted August 7, 2006 Report Share Posted August 7, 2006 Each to their own i guess. But I have to say i had no problem at all ever contacting George and I have had 0 problems with the quality of my spring, not to mention still having as good if not better ride quality then the stock spring with no noise or clunking from the rear like I've heard some with coilovers have. We will all have our own opinions and experiences when dealing with the W-Body's suspension I guess. P.S there is no compressing needed with the FAF spring. I can change mine alone in under 20 mins now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Terry, do you still have the aux springs on yours? I pulled my sub box (2 12"s) and amps yesterday. Damn that stuff is heavy. Anyway, I'm getting rid of that stuff since it's excessive for me these days. Unfortunately, it looks like it raised the ride height another 1/4" for a total of 3/4" rake. Rear wheels from floor to wheel well is 27-3/4". From center of wheels to wheel well is 15" (front wheels is 14-1/4"). The rear is completely even from side to side despite slightly lopsided appearance of the spring. I also measured the amount of force the KYB GR2 struts is able to exert by taking a strut, holding it still, and then letting its shaft push against a scale. It was able to exert 60lbs of force by itself. I wonder if that's enough to increase the ride height? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted August 14, 2006 Report Share Posted August 14, 2006 I also measured the amount of force the KYB GR2 struts is able to exert by taking a strut, holding it still, and then letting its shaft push against a scale. It was able to exert 60lbs of force by itself. I wonder if that's enough to increase the ride height? That is a lot , times 2 struts and it can add up. Cannot remember how old you said these KYBs where, i think 6 years like mine, they are holding their charge well Last is, the spring on its own is already trying to lift up the car, so 120 lbs of added lift from the struts might be why the struts are so able to provide such a lift increase, I mean not so much the 120 lbs lifting things but the help given to the lifting the spring is also doing, sound right? If the spring were not lifting then it would be well.....sagging . I like a little rake like you said, all cars that have some just look a little better than just flat, THEN and I believe this is why the subs are coming out, need to carry (read: putting the weight back in and the car is back to flat ) passengers and such things, my 4-door knows that duty . Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted August 14, 2006 Report Share Posted August 14, 2006 Yep, they're actually a little older than 6yrs old, I think I put them in sometime Feb of 2000. They do hold their charge VERY well, I couldn't compress them at all last weekend unless I put my weight into it. I agree, 120lbs of lift in addition to the spring could make a noticeable difference. I personally can't even lift 120lbs, but I can lift up on the bumper enough to change the height a little. The rake is okay, but I think I could stand a little less rake. My Koni struts have only half the gas pressure of the KYB (about 30lbs force on the same scale) so I might switch to those and see if it affects the ride height. I may also try adding some aux springs back in. Unfortunately I can't use the ones I pulled out because they come too close to my 94 rear calipers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdaye Posted August 14, 2006 Report Share Posted August 14, 2006 Terry, do you still have the aux springs on yours? what are they? and I have 2 12's and a couple amps in my trunk and always keep my gas tank 3/4 and above. I've never taken them out since I have has this spring installed but i'm sure all the weight adds up. My rear KYB GR2's are only a few months old but i didn't think they had they much pressure, but I guess thats right. i don't think the rear of these cars weigh very much. put a couple sandbags in your trunk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luminal67 Posted August 14, 2006 Report Share Posted August 14, 2006 In hindsight, I probably should have bought coilovers because someday someone may come up with front coilovers and that way I could get to the height I want. I'd really like to lower it even 2" more than it is to where the very tops of the tire tuck into the fenders like lowered Mercedes and BMW's do. they have front coilovers. i have a set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted August 14, 2006 Report Share Posted August 14, 2006 what are they? and I have 2 12's and a couple amps in my trunk and always keep my gas tank 3/4 and above. I've never taken them out since I have has this spring installed but i'm sure all the weight adds up. My rear KYB GR2's are only a few months old but i didn't think they had they much pressure, but I guess thats right. i don't think the rear of these cars weigh very much. put a couple sandbags in your trunk Aux springs = those cylindrical rubber looking springs that are by the struts. They may have reduced the gas pressure in the KYB's over the years. It's my understanding the gas charge is just to prevent foaming of the oil, so they may have discovered they could get by with less. Who knows?! they have front coilovers. i have a set. Who made them, and are they any good? Another member has the Held ones and said they're cheap junk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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