ThunderBat Posted December 21, 2003 Report Share Posted December 21, 2003 has anyone looked into either the caddy northstar or the olds aurora v8 engine swap into a Wbody? is there enuff physical room or is that a different platform altogether? I've never measured overall dimensions, this was just a thought off the top of my head. but it seems like it would be an awesome swap if possible...anyfeedback? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5speedz34 Posted December 21, 2003 Report Share Posted December 21, 2003 I know it won't fit generation 1 w-bodies there just isn't enough room under the hood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quaddriver Posted December 21, 2003 Report Share Posted December 21, 2003 has anyone looked into either the caddy northstar or the olds aurora v8 engine swap into a Wbody? is there enuff physical room or is that a different platform altogether? I've never measured overall dimensions, this was just a thought off the top of my head. but it seems like it would be an awesome swap if possible...anyfeedback? I know someone who has the northstar in a fiero, the pcar cradle is based on the xcar cradle, which is narrower than the W, so it should fit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5speedz34 Posted December 21, 2003 Report Share Posted December 21, 2003 It wont this has been discussed numerous times, the N* and the Aurora are 90* blocks and won't clear the radiator core, just like a 3.4 DOHC wont go into a j-body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quaddriver Posted December 21, 2003 Report Share Posted December 21, 2003 It wont this has been discussed numerous times, the N* and the Aurora are 90* blocks and won't clear the radiator core, just like a 3.4 DOHC wont go into a j-body. the 3800 is also 90 degrees. The 3.4DOHC is wider than a SBC (small block chevy) - any displacement. What the original poster wants to do is contact 'ASG' from Indiana phone: (317) 826-2906 , they sell kits to install chevy motors or northstar motors I believe. u can also try http://www.kitcars.com to get more specific advice. the only real problem the poster will run into (besides cost) is tranny destruction in short order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5speedz34 Posted December 21, 2003 Report Share Posted December 21, 2003 The 3800 is also a V-6 not a V-8 and the SBC is a pushrod so it doesnt have huge heads like the DOHC's and yes ASG puts in bored over 4.9 caddy motors in w-bodies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quaddriver Posted December 21, 2003 Report Share Posted December 21, 2003 The 3800 is also a V-6 not a V-8 and the SBC is a pushrod so it doesnt have huge heads like the DOHC's and yes ASG puts in bored over 4.9 caddy motors in w-bodies. so I guess that means we are in agreement that it is doable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5speedz34 Posted December 21, 2003 Report Share Posted December 21, 2003 IDK about the northstar kits but I've always been told and know that N* and the Aurora motors will not fit. And ASG as far as I know do the 4.9 Caddy swap idk about ne kits for SBC's or N*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutlassdude96 Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 also the 4t80-E is a huge tranmistion alot biger then the 4T60/60E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSCGTP Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 not doable unless you are willing to take a sawzall to the car. The northstar is bigger both front to back, and side to side. the only engine mount in the GEN 1 cars that can be used is the transmission mount. The GEN 1 cars do not have the proper mounting area for the other 3 mounts. There are issues with the exhasutmanifold as well. The stock manifold goes UNDER the engine, and OVER the transmission, so you would need a custom exhaust as well (but there is not enough room). The overhead cams are so much bigger that it would hit both the radiator, as well as the rear firewall. I have tried this, and unless you are willing to totally chop off the front of the car, and make your own subframe, as well as antire FRAME, and then attach the body panels, it will not work. It is not even close to being a drop in type of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey b Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 WTF are you all talking about? Yes the 4.9 northstar will fit. http://www.asgindy.com And who here has that white lumina with the black flames. That flashy one........with the 4.9 Northstar in it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutlassdude96 Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 the 4.9 is not a N* its an older Caddy engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey b Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 I believe they use the engine from a 95 seville. If that isn't the N*, then :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5speedz34 Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 Yeah, in the early years of the N* program it was the upgraded engine you had to pay extra for. My g-pa had a 95 Deville and it had the 4.9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBat Posted December 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 thanx for all the input guys!...I've seen a 4.9 in a fiero myself and it looked like a nice sano install...the owner said the engine and tranny came from a caddy allante...but there are brighter days ahead! I read in "motor trend" (I think, I got so many mags laying around!)...that the detroit spies have seen wbody test mules running around with small bore,all aluminum (4.6) gen3 SBC engines...theysaid they plan on supplanting the L67 in the MonteSS, ImpalaSS and the Grand Prix. It also stated that they are trying to keep the HP output under 300 because they feel 300 is too unweildy for FWD (bullchit!)...so maybe it wont be so awful much longer before we have the means for a drop-in V8 swap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quaddriver Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 thanx for all the input guys!...I've seen a 4.9 in a fiero myself and it looked like a nice sano install...the owner said the engine and tranny came from a caddy allante...but there are brighter days ahead! I read in "motor trend" (I think, I got so many mags laying around!)...that the detroit spies have seen wbody test mules running around with small bore,all aluminum (4.6) gen3 SBC engines...theysaid they plan on supplanting the L67 in the MonteSS, ImpalaSS and the Grand Prix. It also stated that they are trying to keep the HP output under 300 because they feel 300 is too unweildy for FWD (bullchit!)...so maybe it wont be so awful much longer before we have the means for a drop-in V8 swap! heck detroit has had 300hp 3800 supers running around for 10 years now but they wont market one - with traction control you have a chance of launching one....the problem still remains that even the beefed up 4T65E will lose an input drum or some expensive splines behind all that power so the requires a bigger tranny that is not an easy fit - it would become a service nightmare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black35intrigue Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 a northstar will indeed fit in the later w-cars. why else would Olds create the Intrigue OSV 4.6? according to GM the northstar fits perfectly after moving the battery to the trunk. The 4.6 is only 1 cylinder length longer than a 3.5 The 4t80 fits, but as for the drive shafts, I have no clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatan Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2463880385&category=31865 was what i had planned before my trofeo got killed but i bought a supercharged riv to replace it and think i will put 3.8 in my 89 regal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Yeah, Northstar and 4T80-E will fit the gen 2 W-bodies no problem. Custom mounts required, but will fit and the Cadillac halfshafts work no probs. Gen 1 W-bodies don't have enough firewall depth to fit a Northstar, and not enough clearance to fit a 4T80-E (vacuum booster and rack in the way). With enough cutting, hacking, and welding, it could be made to fit, but then you'd be looking at the kind of work rich people pay hot rod shops 6-figures to do. I would sure like a V8 in my gen 1 W-body, but the Caddy 4.9L isn't a particularly good engine. Too bad there aren't other V8 options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 I would sure like a V8 in my gen 1 W-body, but the Caddy 4.9L isn't a particularly good engine. Too bad there aren't other V8 options. What about the ASG 5.0? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 I would sure like a V8 in my gen 1 W-body, but the Caddy 4.9L isn't a particularly good engine. Too bad there aren't other V8 options. What about the ASG 5.0? It's just a built-up 4.9L. Just the wet-sleeve design of the engine (or GM's impementation of it) makes it not very durable. 4.9L is bad enough, I can only imagine what kind of headaches a ASG 5.0L version would be. Not worth the $$$ either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 Ah, didn't realize that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
913_4se Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 ASG 5.0 Engine Technical Specifications The ASG 5.0 System was designed to update the GM W class cars to modern, fuel injected V8 power. It can also be used as a direct, drop-in replacement for the Cadillac 4.9L engine and 4T60-E transmission in cars so equipped. ASG 5.0 engines begin life as a new GM Goodwrench Cadillac OHV 4.9L V8. This engine was the mainstay for Cadillac from 1991-1994 when it was replaced by the 4.6L DOHC Northstar Engine. The 4.9L OHV V8 is rated at 200 HP at 4100 RPM, and 275 ft-lbs of Torque at 3000 RPM by Cadillac. Cadillac mated the 4.9L OHV V8 with their strongest front-wheel drive automatic transmission of the day -- the Cadillac 4T60-E. ASG V8 W-Bodies BASE KIT: $1,530 Includes all necessary hardware, mount brackets, engine and transmission mounts, specially crafted half shafts, hoses, oil cooler and lines, Power steering hoses, A/C hoses, and all bolts, clamps and miscellaneous. Also includes specific wiring instructions for your exact vehicle. http://www.angelfire.com/stars/mycaddy/asg.htm#The%20ASG%205.0%20Performance%20results: sounds cool though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5speedz34 Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 It's just a built-up 4.9L. Just the wet-sleeve design of the engine (or GM's impementation of it) makes it not very durable. 4.9L is bad enough, I can only imagine what kind of headaches a ASG 5.0L version would be. Not worth the $$$ either. Can you elaborate on the wet-sleeve design? What is it cylinder sleeves, and there pressed in while wet or something? My grandpa had a 4.9 in his 95 Deville and that thing ran awesome up to the day that he sold it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Can you elaborate on the wet-sleeve design? What is it cylinder sleeves, and there pressed in while wet or something? My grandpa had a 4.9 in his 95 Deville and that thing ran awesome up to the day that he sold it. Wet sleeve means the cylinders are iron sleeves surrounded by coolant in the block. The coolant is kept out of the combustion chamber via O-ring at the bottom, and cylinder head at the top. Coolant and oil mixing was a common problem with some of these engines. The life of the engine is also shorter since the O-ring is used in a severe-duty type environment and will need replacing eventually. The bad thing is by the time you've figured out an O-ring needs to be replaced, the engine has already thrown a rod. This is very different than an aluminum engine like the LS1 which has a cast-in-place iron sleeve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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