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mechanic58
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Another facet of this project will include eliminating the ABS brakes on the car. I have just started looking into that and have a few questions maybe someone can answer for me. Looking at pictures of new replacement master cylinders - both from the early 1st gen Luminas and the later ones (that woulda had ABS), it appears the master cylinders are the same. I'm assuming then that the ABS unit was just engineered to attach to the existing master cylinders that were previously in use. I also don't see any listings for an external proportioning valve for the early cars and have noticed the master cylinders (for both applications) have 4 ports instead of two. Does this mean that proportioning takes place within the master cylinder itself? 

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3 hours ago, mechanic58 said:

Thanks, I appreciate your input.

Edit: This engine I'm using is a Series II 3800. There were significant differences between the Series I and Series II engines. The 1st gen Regals woulda had a Series I engine. Are the motor mount locations the same on both blocks? I know for a fact there were multiple casting differences between the two engines, especially along the oil pan rail area on the block. 

That's quite right, the castings for both the block & heads are significantly different, to the best of my remembering the engine mount bosses are cast into the block at the same location.

 

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2 hours ago, mechanic58 said:

Another facet of this project will include eliminating the ABS brakes on the car. I have just started looking into that and have a few questions maybe someone can answer for me. Looking at pictures of new replacement master cylinders - both from the early 1st gen Luminas and the later ones (that woulda had ABS), it appears the master cylinders are the same. I'm assuming then that the ABS unit was just engineered to attach to the existing master cylinders that were previously in use. I also don't see any listings for an external proportioning valve for the early cars and have noticed the master cylinders (for both applications) have 4 ports instead of two. Does this mean that proportioning takes place within the master cylinder itself? 

The ABS VI system is a decent system, unlike it's predecessor it's basically trouble-free. Many Gen 2 cars make use it as well.

The bIg difference in the 2 designs for the master is the number of ports. The non abs unit has 4 threaded ports whereas the abs  units have only 2 threaded ports.

Where the ABS equipped car are concerned the master has eliminated the built in proportioning valve assembly (the internals were simply removed) but the non ABS master does. The proportioning valves are under those two large caps screwed into the master body. 

What I do not know is whether or not the ends of the brake lines on an ABS car are threaded in the same manner as the ends of the non abs cars. The non ABS master & lines are threaded with 4 different threaded pitches & dia retaining nuts so they cannot be inadvertently mixed up.

 

Edited by 55trucker
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1 hour ago, 55trucker said:

The ABS VI system is a decent system, unlike it's predecessor it's basically trouble-free. Many Gen 2 cars make use it as well.

The bIg difference in the 2 designs for the master is the number of ports. The non abs unit has 4 threaded ports whereas the abs  units have only 2 threaded ports.

Where the ABS equipped car are concerned the master has eliminated the built in proportioning valve assembly (the internals were simply removed) but the non ABS master does. The proportioning valves are under those two large caps screwed into the master body. 

What I do not know is whether or not the ends of the brake lines on an ABS car are threaded in the same manner as the ends of the non abs cars. The non ABS master & lines are threaded with 4 different threaded pitches & dia retaining nuts so they cannot be inadvertently mixed up.

 

Thanks, I really appreciate this information. Not too worried about the line fitment, thats just a simple plumbing task. 
 

Hoping to get the L67 out of the GTP this weekend. This will shed a lot more light for me. Its been too long since the last time I had one of these engines on my stand and I just can’t remember such details anymore. Getting too old I reckon. 

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1 hour ago, Jim_rockford_007 said:

Where this 3.4 is headed.....

FB_IMG_1535206125376.jpg

I’m going to bring to your house and dump it out, upside down in your driveway - full of black oil and 20yo antifreeze. 

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Finally got the engine cradle cleaned up and painted and reinstalled back in the car. Planning to install the L67 from the top. I’ll have the brake master cylinder out of the way for that process since I’m planning to make some changes there anyway.

BEB6-B155-6668-44-AD-B111-3-D69797426-E2

This is what the bottom of a rust free Carolina car looks like…

A1-A3-D8-B0-0-A8-D-455-D-A913-3-B96420-D
 

C6-A1-F0-BB-C0-D1-4-E10-A30-F-9129-D3-A8

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Having a really hard time locating a camshaft for the 3800. Anybody here got a good used stock cam they would be willing to part with?

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On 8/2/2021 at 5:49 PM, 55trucker said:

^ No big mystery there......

1st gen Regal L27 engine mounts, all  1st gen Regals fitted with the L27 made use only a single dogbone. The powertrain does not tilt.

 

 

Although this might work, you can just use the GTP motor and trans mount.  simple and done.  As long as the trans is a 4 speed, you'll have no issues with the subframe mounts.  if it was a 3 speed, you'd need to get a 4 speed trans bracket that bolts to the subframe, but I think you're good with the GTP one on yours.  

 

I think the 1st  gen dogbones may work.  However if not, the 2nd gen ones will for sure, you just need to cut the bottom part of the piece that mounts to the rad support.  You'll end up with only 2 bolts holding it on.  It's worked for me for 10,000 miles so far on my 1st gen cutlass.  

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On 8/14/2021 at 3:48 PM, mechanic58 said:

Just bought a new one. $$$

should have went with a ZZP VS cam ($325).  simple and same amount of effort, minus installing valve springs.  

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1 hour ago, Bake82 said:

should have went with a ZZP VS cam ($325).  simple and same amount of effort, minus installing valve springs.  

That’s the cam that I wanted to use, however ZZP does not have any of them in stock and they don’t know when they are going to get any in stock. I’m not interested in waiting three months to finish assembling this engine.

1 hour ago, Bake82 said:

 

 

Although this might work, you can just use the GTP motor and trans mount.  simple and done.  As long as the trans is a 4 speed, you'll have no issues with the subframe mounts.  if it was a 3 speed, you'd need to get a 4 speed trans bracket that bolts to the subframe, but I think you're good with the GTP one on yours.  

 

I think the 1st  gen dogbones may work.  However if not, the 2nd gen ones will for sure, you just need to cut the bottom part of the piece that mounts to the rad support.  You'll end up with only 2 bolts holding it on.  It's worked for me for 10,000 miles so far on my 1st gen cutlass.  

Yep, I am going to use the motor mount system from the GTP. It’s basically a bolt-in swap on the Lumina. There will be some very minor fab work involved in mounting the upper dogbones, but the lower mounts will bolt in without any issues.

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11 hours ago, mechanic58 said:

That’s the cam that I wanted to use, however ZZP does not have any of them in stock and they don’t know when they are going to get any in stock. I’m not interested in waiting three months to finish assembling this engine.

Yep, I am going to use the motor mount system from the GTP. It’s basically a bolt-in swap on the Lumina. There will be some very minor fab work involved in mounting the upper dogbones, but the lower mounts will bolt in without any issues.

Makes sense on the cam!  too bad you couldn't find a used one!  But such is life in covid!

 

Very minor (ie. just need to cut the bottom tabs off) the pieces that bolt onto the rad support.  

 

Are you using the GTP wiring harness or have you sourced a 98/99 monte carlo z34 or lumina ltz? 

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5 minutes ago, Bake82 said:

Makes sense on the cam!  too bad you couldn't find a used one!  But such is life in covid!

 

Very minor (ie. just need to cut the bottom tabs off) the pieces that bolt onto the rad support.  

 

Are you using the GTP wiring harness or have you sourced a 98/99 monte carlo z34 or lumina ltz? 

I’ll be using the GTP wiring harness. I’ll just have to tailor it to my needs for this application. I am no stranger to this sort of thing so it’s not going to be a big deal for me.

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17 hours ago, mechanic58 said:

I’ll be using the GTP wiring harness. I’ll just have to tailor it to my needs for this application. I am no stranger to this sort of thing so it’s not going to be a big deal for me.

Most use the 98/99, as I have, but I think it was because 1 guy didn't wire the GTP harness properly and it started a fire.  the 98/99 is certainly easier to do, but I think the GTP will be easy enough too!  have experience will make it easy with the right wiring diagrams!  Good luck with the swap!

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...

I'm interested to see this project finished. Big fan of the Z34 and the swap to the L67 opens up all sorts of performance options. Great engine!

Although I have to admit, the 310hp my 2018 3.6 makes blows me away when I think about how much I spent on my GP hunting for more go-go power.

That Z34 with a 3.6/6spd would be a beast!  (Yes, I'm taking foolish brain surgery!) LOL

 

Edited by ThunderBat
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I’ve actually been working on this a little bit lately. The engine has been completely overhauled and I just finished overhauling the transmission last week. While I had it apart I changed the final drive ratio from 2.93 to 3.69 and it also got a transgo shift correction kit. Additionally I changed the torque converter from a 1900 stall to a 2400 stall and I am also planning to put a pulley on the supercharger. I expect I will probably get the engine and transmission at least bolted into the car in the next couple of weeks. I still need to get my drive axles sorted out.

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12 hours ago, mechanic58 said:

I’ve actually been working on this a little bit lately. The engine has been completely overhauled and I just finished overhauling the transmission last week. While I had it apart I changed the final drive ratio from 2.93 to 3.69 and it also got a transgo shift correction kit. Additionally I changed the torque converter from a 1900 stall to a 2400 stall and I am also planning to put a pulley on the supercharger. I expect I will probably get the engine and transmission at least bolted into the car in the next couple of weeks. I still need to get my drive axles sorted out.

Axles are simple.

GTP inner tulips to plug into the trans with Z34 shafts and outer joint into the hub.  

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1 hour ago, Bake82 said:

Axles are simple.

GTP inner tulips to plug into the trans with Z34 shafts and outer joint into the hub.  

Actually no, not that simple. The first generation Lumina Z34 had a special axle. The inner CV joint is not retrofittable with the 4T65 style axles. I have to get a set of second generation Lumina axles for a 4T65 and then swap one of the inner joints.

trust me, I already have this sorted out. I just haven’t bought the parts yet.

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