turbostewhite Posted September 20, 2003 Report Share Posted September 20, 2003 Please, anyone who actually KNOWS...will my ste eat up a getrag/muncie 282 , like the one in my Beretta/Z24 etc...? I have 3 of them, and need to replace my bad 4t60-e. I already have shifter/cables/console, plus a donor car with clutch pedal, etc... Please tell me this is gonna work, all others i've known of say the turbo will eat the 282 for lunch. Help! Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolt_Crank Posted September 20, 2003 Report Share Posted September 20, 2003 I don't know if the J-body 282 fits in a W, I'm pretty sure it doesn't.... but if it does, the 282 should hold up pretty decently, might have to upgrade a couple things, not 100% sure what to do on that part, if you search I'm pretty sure you'll find it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Burning Rom Posted September 20, 2003 Report Share Posted September 20, 2003 What are you putting this getreg in? :? Yes, it will work with the 3.1 turbo, but there may be some computer issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted September 20, 2003 Report Share Posted September 20, 2003 Please, anyone who actually KNOWS...will my ste eat up a getrag/muncie 282 , like the one in my Beretta/Z24 etc...?I have 3 of them, and need to replace my bad 4t60-e. I already have shifter/cables/console, plus a donor car with clutch pedal, etc... Please tell me this is gonna work, all others i've known of say the turbo will eat the 282 for lunch. Help! Marc No...the 282 will stand up very well behind a Turbo 3.1. There are Fiero guys strapping NorStar Caddy motors to 282's and the 3.1 Turbo has not near the torque or HP compared to a NorStar motor. I am assuming by your screen name you are looking at putting this into your STE? I know the TGP's had all the stamps in the floorboards where you need to cut and run the shift linkage through (not same hole as Auto-tranny shift cable). Then the hole is present already for the clutch slave...but you have to make it a off shape square for the slave to twist lock into place. I do not know if the STE had the same floorboard and fire-wall stamps as the TGP...but it is possible. You will need all parts from a W-body for the conversion. The J-body parts will not work.... 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted September 20, 2003 Report Share Posted September 20, 2003 i will post as much info/details as i can tomarrow!!! i'm kinda drunk right now so i dont' want to mess up & give any false info, but i've done the swap twice now, and am now in the middle of swapping in my third trans (original 4T60, then a '90 Grand Prix 282 (RIP), now it's going to be an '88 Grand Prix 282). i got your PM and if you have any more questions on this swap PM me or better yet reply here....share info..... btw, i think you'll need a Getrag 282 from a W-body. i have *heard* that the intermediate shaft is different and the mounting places may be different. look for '88-'90 Grand Prix's in the salvage yard! they were by far the most common to get them, altho the Cutlass was available with them during the same years. i think the '90 Lumina 3.1 may have been available with a 282 also (that would be pretty rare). i have gone thru TWO Gerag 282's now; one being a stock '88 Corsica 2.8/Getrag 282 5-speed, the other being a '90 Getrag 282 from a '90 Grand Prix with a stock 3.1. i wasn't being hard on them and the Corsica's tranny would always break shifter cables and grind into gear (synchros?). my '90 282 that just went out just started grinding like crazy while i was driving along in 2nd gear, i slowed down and downshifted to 1st and i had the same aweful grinding noise. i then shifted to 3rd and it seemed ok so i drove the car straight home. since then i've had to move the car a few blocks to my garage and it leaks fluid like crazy, i have to start driving the car in 3rd because there is NOTHING in 1st or 2nd gear. the clutch pedal feels normal. i have regularly checked the condition of the fluid (GM Syncromesh) and it was clean until the day it started grinding. then it was black, noisy, missing gears.....blah.....i don't have much faith in the Getrag 282 but there are Fiero guys putting Northstar engines and LT1's in front of them. i think the clutch is the weak link. DON'T get a Centerforce dual friction clutch.....everyone here seems to hate them (they get hot and slip). still tho, i'd take a 282 over a 284 (for other reasons). joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skalor Posted September 20, 2003 Report Share Posted September 20, 2003 It's true that a lot of fiero guys have put some insane motor combos in front of the 282(i.e. LT1, LS1, N*, L67, and SBs too of course). Do they hold the power? Well, I have heard of a lot that hold it and a lot that break. Usually though, the ones that break are high mileage units(200,000+). So, my advice is to get as low a unit as possible, and use only GM Syncromesh tranny fluid!! As far as the clutch goes, a lot of Fiero guys swear by the SPEC units. They have clutches for the 282 that can handle over 450 ftlbs of torque!! :shock: I'm swapping in a getrag 284 from a DOHC 3.4 Cutlass Supreme. A lot of people avoid the 284 due to the fact that parts are not available for it, and if you want it rebuilt you have to send it to GM directly. Plus, the clutches are hella expensive compared to 282 clutches($489 for a 284 SPEC stage 1 compared to around $299 for a 282 SPEC stage 3) :shock: Anyways, I decided on the 284 because I got the whole setup for around $150, which is axles, tranny, mounts, shifter, shifter cables, clutch pedal, slave/master cylinder, and few other goodies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
god910 Posted September 20, 2003 Report Share Posted September 20, 2003 Let me add some info w/o screwing anything up. The 282 in my TGP was from a 2.8 Corsica I THINK!!!!! I have a double sided Kevlar clutch in it right now and it starts slipping after about 2 hours of semi hard driving. Let it cool and it's good to go after that. The P/O couldn't tell me too much about the clutch. ...and about the clutchi dont think theres a warranty on the clutch-i got it from ft wayne clutch.its kevlar on both sides, sposed to be good for about 300hp. i really never drove it for that long and hard so i never had any probs with it. (Could it be a centerforce?) I have been considering going w/ a SPEC stage 3, but I have never put a clutch in a car before, so someone is going to need to talk me into doing it myself. (I DO have the money to pay to have it done, but I have been a mechanic for some time, but been babied at a d-ship that had a 35 year tranny tech so no-one got to play w/ trannies.) The 282 in Black Sunshine was rebuilt before put in, and had a ceramic clutch in it but was too harsh and broke a tranny mount. So he switched to a Kevlar/Kevlar clutch. Man, I love my 5 sp. I probably wouldn't have bought this car if it was an auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolt_Crank Posted September 20, 2003 Report Share Posted September 20, 2003 it's actually pretty easy to change a clutch... once the tranny is out, just start taking it off, and make sure that things go on in the proper order... at least, that's the way it was on the last Semi I worked on... fricken 300lb clutch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbostewhite Posted September 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2003 Wow! Thank you for all the info...I have a few 282's and really want to do this swap to my 90 ste. I have the shifter and cables, and can get the inboard cv shaft and clutch components. Yes, the getrag 282 is the same across the board, so i will pick the best one i have with the lowest miles for the job. When I actually do the swap, i'll keep all of you posted. Thanks also for the clutch info...sounds like this is the weakest link in the whole 282 myth. 8) I also have a spare 3.1 turbo ste motor, completely apart, with 73, xxx miles on it...is there a market for that?Worth me parting with a perfect parts engine? Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted September 20, 2003 Report Share Posted September 20, 2003 SAY NO TO CENTERFORCE!!!!!! Find out from the dude who did the Cavi conversion what he used. Centerforce is a PILE OF SHIT! 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian89gp Posted September 20, 2003 Report Share Posted September 20, 2003 Found out that clutchnet makes clutches for the 282 and 284, might be worth a look. For the 282 there are dual disc clutches made by clutchmasters i believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbostewhite Posted September 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2003 very cool , you guys and thank you. Anyone suggest a good, affordable clutch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted September 21, 2003 Report Share Posted September 21, 2003 Curtis Walker PM'd me last week and said a stock replacement clutch worked fine with his TGP engine. his car is now modified like crazy, so i'm assuming he's using a better clutch now. i forgot which. i think Getrag/Muncie 282's are the same across the board, and i know there was a guy on the old W-body mailing list (was it Jonathan?) that installed a 282 from a '94 3.1 Cavalier into his '90 Lumina. what i would be worried about tho is the intermediate shaft, and weather the axles would be the right length that go with the J-body intermediate shaft. the W-body Getrag uses 3 bolts to hold it in, but i've *heard* the J-body intermediate shaft just slides in and i'm assuming it would be shorter? i have no idea if 282's from 2.8/3.1 L-bodies will work without modification. i myself would rather get a W-body 282 and not have any unwelcome surprises later. i'm planning on a Luk Rep Set replacement clutch for my TGP engine/282 combo. they hold up on my brother's Turbo Dodges just fine (i just bought one for my GTS too), his Shelby Lancer is probably a mid/high 14 second car running 13psi and his clutch has never slipped. his '89 Shadow ES 2.5 Turbo is almost as fast, and that has the same clutch and has never slipped, even after racing. and those clutches only cost $150! i haven't looked into getting a Luk Rep Set clutch kit for my Getrag 282 yet, but hopefully they aren't much more than the sets they sell for the Turbo Dodges. hth joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolt_Crank Posted September 21, 2003 Report Share Posted September 21, 2003 get whatever was put on the stock 1990 Mazda B2600i 4x4's, no matter what, I couldn't get that thing to overheat, slip or anything, and after 260 thousand kilometers of shit beating the clutch was still good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted September 21, 2003 Report Share Posted September 21, 2003 I am assuming by your screen name you are looking at putting this into your STE? I know the TGP's had all the stamps in the floorboards where you need to cut and run the shift linkage through (not same hole as Auto-tranny shift cable). Then the hole is present already for the clutch slave...but you have to make it a off shape square for the slave to twist lock into place. I do not know if the STE had the same floorboard and fire-wall stamps as the TGP...but it is possible. You will need all parts from a W-body for the conversion. The J-body parts will not work.... 8) i would assume the TSTE has the same floorboard, my CS sedan had the stamps in place. actually you have to go thru two layers of metal. the first needs to be drilled out with a hole saw (forgot which size i used but i can check), and the 2nd (on the engine side of the firewall) can be just knocked out i think. i actually used the hole saw on both layers of metal cuz i didn't know the other could be knocked out :oops: works great tho, i've never had any problems. and when you modify the clutch master cylinder hole (the one to the right of the brake booster); i HIGHLY recommend using a Dremel with an 18" flex shaft and a tungsten carbide cutter....at least i think that was the bit i used. sliced right thru the firewall sheet metal and the flex shaft made getting into that tight place much easier. i think i actually bought my Dremel w/flexshaft just for this job. the round hole needs to be modified into a slightly bigger square hole. on column shifted cars like mine was, that is where the cable passes thru. since yours is obviously floor shift auto, the cables pass thru the firewall in a different location....but, the round hole next to the brake booster should still be there, but with a rubber grommet covering it. be VERY careful not to make the hole too big when you modify it or you'd be kinda screwed. i just cut small amounts away and kept trying to test fit the master cylinder. it finally fit in tightly and then you just rotate it 45 degrees to lock it in place. there is also an 'anti-rotation' screw (so the clutch master cylinder doesn't fall out), but i don't even use mine - it fits in tightly and has never rotated one bit. after you drill/knock out the metal for the shifter cables and modify the clutch master cylinder hole, it's all bolt in from then on out! hth, joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboGTU Posted September 21, 2003 Report Share Posted September 21, 2003 As far as clutch setups.. I know that the high clamp force presureplates and stock organic disk(ie centerforce) are ok over stock. Then the kavlar disk, but they suck after some use(1000+miles). I've heard of people saying that they glaze and start slipping. I've hear of someone mentioning Fibertuff. I don't know what exacly that is...but it has light amounts of kavlar. Then theres cramic/carbon matalic. Those are excellent, but the tend to "eat" the flywheel and presureplate. But that only means that they are high friction(great hold). After this would be the nonstreet/strip only disk (iron pucks). A sprung hub would be great too for the street...less chatter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboGTU Posted September 21, 2003 Report Share Posted September 21, 2003 As far as clutch setups.. I know that the high clamp force presureplates and stock organic disk(ie centerforce) are ok over stock. Then the kavlar disk, but they suck after some use(1000+miles). I've heard of people saying that they glaze and start slipping. I've hear of someone mentioning Fibertuff. I don't know what exacly that is...but it has light amounts of kavlar. Then theres cramic/carbon matalic. Those are excellent, but the tend to "eat" the flywheel and presureplate. But that only means that they are high friction(great hold). After this would be the nonstreet/strip only disk (iron pucks). A sprung hub would be great too for the street...less chatter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbostewhite Posted September 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2003 Joshua, Thanks for the excellent advice...yes, the w body and the l body(beretta) both use a tri-bolt setup on the intermediate shaft, the w body shaft is a bit longer, i've heard. I am going to pick up the shaft, clutch pedal assy, and master on tuesday from the only wbody 5 speed in existence, it would seem, in Florida. I've been looking in every j-yard for 4 months, and finally came across one, luckily i had $150.00 credit there, so i am using it up! I already bought the shifter and cables/console insert.Damn thing actually had a factory cassette holder...spring loaded, for the console! pretty clever! I have no use for it, though... Oh, and if you know anyone who wants/needs some 1992 ste parts, let me know. I am keeping the motor/trans/ecm/harness to stuff in a euro lumina i have. thanks again, Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted September 21, 2003 Report Share Posted September 21, 2003 i have an extra intermediate shaft that i could sell to you CHEAP!!! that is if you haven't already bought one....it would be from my '90 GP Getrag 282...i'm sure it's still in good condition.... good luck with the swap! your car will go from 'rather boring' to drive to 'damn this car is hella FUN!' joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbostewhite Posted September 28, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2003 joshua, thanks for the offer...any idea how much to orlando? (the inter. shaft)? i'm getting a 90 tgp from a local dealer this week...HOPEFULLY...red, hud, tan leather...cross all fingers. am trading an astro and a 94 dodge van...HOPEFULLY. cross all toes. marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumpin_z Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 I have heard nothing but positive things about the bully stage II clutch there is a stage III but it release harder and is a 4 puck design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted September 30, 2003 Report Share Posted September 30, 2003 joshua, thanks for the offer...any idea how much to orlando? (the inter. shaft)? i'm getting a 90 tgp from a local dealer this week...HOPEFULLY...red, hud, tan leather...cross all fingers.am trading an astro and a 94 dodge van...HOPEFULLY. cross all toes. marc i still have to pull the motor/tranny, which is completely ready for the cherry picker besides pulling the axles out again. i should have it out shortly - i think one of my friends is going to let me use his driveway to finish the tranny swap. i'll PM you when i get it out (hopefully this week). PM me if you find one in the meantime.... hope you snare that TGP!! joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbostewhite Posted September 30, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2003 Thanks dude i will keep you posted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1trucavalier Posted September 30, 2003 Report Share Posted September 30, 2003 if you are putting the 5-speed in a w-body then you need a w-body getrag! there is something different in the shift/clutch assembly J-body VS W-body. Yes it will bolt to a j-3.1L or w 3.1L but the shift linkage or hydraulic systems are different. You will also need the W-body intermediate shaft which the j and n bodies don't have because they are not as wide. Look on http://www.car-part.com there are tons of w-body 5-speeds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbostewhite Posted September 30, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2003 Thanks for the input, i appreciate it, the transaxles themselves are the same; however, thru lots of advice and research i've determined the shifter/assembly/linkage is different, as well as the inter shaft length. Thanks again, marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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