Crazy K Posted February 23, 2008 Report Share Posted February 23, 2008 Anyone have a pic of the sensor on the engine so I know what to look for? someone will... sort of. hell, I can barely see it when i do the job. here's how to find it: remove the overflow reservoir on your car. reach down on the rear of the engine below the alternator. You will first find the first sensor which is the knock sensor, not to be confused with the VSS which is nearby on the transmission. the knock sensor is about 2 inches in diameter and is cylindrical and about 1 inch in height, with a one wire plug. About 2 inches down and two inches to the drivers is the crank sensor, and it is held in with one 8 mm bolt. when it is not stuck, I can do the job in about 5 minutes, without having to remove the alternator, but I do have long arms and have to go balls deep into the engine. I also remove the plug from the knock sensor, so I don't accidentally break the knock sensor. coat the replacement sensor with LOTS of dielectric grease stem to stern. this will hopelfully prevent the sludge lock that jambs them in soooooooo often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GutlessSupreme Posted February 23, 2008 Report Share Posted February 23, 2008 it's the gold thingy closest to the oil pan. 8 mm bolt I think. has a 2 prong connector. Sensor is a cylinder about 2" long that goes into the block close to the crank counterweights. sometimes the plastic breaks because of embrittlement when it's removed, I've read of people sticking screws in it and stuff when that happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91GPSTE Posted February 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2008 Ok gonna give it a try this morning. I am getting a spark and RPM needle moves so I doubt it's that. I have a spare from the old motor through so I can just swap it back if it doesn't change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91GPSTE Posted February 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2008 I broke the shit out of the crank sensor trying to take it out. The connector is all fucked up so I can't even put it back. The crank sensor is impossible to get out without pulling the motor. I don't know how you guys did it but there is virtually no room to work in. I can't even stick a pair of pliers in there to grab on to it. The only way to fix it now is to pull the motor but that isn't happening. Not again. This is the first car that left me stranded on the side of the road and this is the first car with a retarded problem that I can't figure out. I am done with it, gonna part it out and junk this pile of shit. First it's a blown motor, then it's blown head gaskets now this. No more GM, never! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted February 23, 2008 Report Share Posted February 23, 2008 I broke the shit out of the crank sensor trying to take it out. The connector is all fucked up so I can't even put it back. The crank sensor is impossible to get out without pulling the motor. I don't know how you guys did it but there is virtually no room to work in. I can't even stick a pair of pliers in there to grab on to it. The only way to fix it now is to pull the motor but that isn't happening. Not again. This is the first car that left me stranded on the side of the road and this is the first car with a retarded problem that I can't figure out. I am done with it, gonna part it out and junk this pile of shit. First it's a blown motor, then it's blown head gaskets now this. No more GM, never! dude. I believe changing/checking the crank sensor is prescribed maintenance. read the FAQ thread on how to do it. EVERYONE! SHOULD YOU EVER HAVE YOUR MOTOR OUT OF YOUR CAR, INSPECT THIS SENSOR! of course... I have a broken off sensor in my 91, which is going to be alot of trouble to remove, just like yours. I will prorbably just yank the drivetrain, since I have a new drivetrain to go in. while out I will recondition this engine for service in another vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91GPSTE Posted February 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2008 The car was gonna get junked after this winter anyway, this just sped up the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted February 23, 2008 Report Share Posted February 23, 2008 The car was gonna get junked after this winter anyway, this just sped up the process. I'll give you a box of pizza rolls for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91GPSTE Posted February 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2008 Ok here is another question. If I were to break the top connector on this sensor off completely, would I be able to push into the motor? I mean if the crankshaft is as far away from it as possible, would there be enough room for the sensor to fall to the bottom of the oil pan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 Ok here is another question. If I were to break the top connector on this sensor off completely, would I be able to push into the motor? I mean if the crankshaft is as far away from it as possible, would there be enough room for the sensor to fall to the bottom of the oil pan? I think not. the magnet at the end is probably 1/8th inch from the crank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted To Boost Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 You will still have spark and tach movement with a bad CPS. A bad CPS will have the plugs sparking at the incorrect time, that is why it wont start. Oh and the easiest way to get it out is to rock the engine forward. When I helped Krenzy do his, I took a 4-wheeler and a tie strap and pulled it forward, set the park brake on the quad It worked very well lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91GPSTE Posted February 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 You will still have spark and tach movement with a bad CPS. A bad CPS will have the plugs sparking at the incorrect time, that is why it wont start. Oh and the easiest way to get it out is to rock the engine forward. When I helped Krenzy do his, I took a 4-wheeler and a tie strap and pulled it forward, set the park brake on the quad It worked very well lol That's what I did but I can't get it out. I can spin it in the hole but can't pull it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotrodolds Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 Looking at the one pic, I would THINK it would be far easier to get at from the bottom. Am I missing something there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOT2B GM Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 So you broke the connector of the sensor right off, or is there still something that you can grab onto? There's an o-ring that seals the sensor into the block, that creates a vacuum that helps hold it in. Once you break that seal it'll pop right out, no junking of car needed. Have you tried bent nose needle nose pliers.....from below? I replaced the one in my TGP from below, motor in car, and everything went smoothly. Should be able to see it from below looking between the motor and the transmission. Look for the knock sensor, it's right below that. 3.1, 4T60, same essential setup as yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 Looking at the one pic, I would THINK it would be far easier to get at from the bottom. Am I missing something there? yeah. the frame. and a 91 has an added piece of frame that an 88-90 does not, the 3.4 dohc third motor mount support. It can be gotten at from the bottom, but the top is easier on 91+ cars. I tried an experiment today. I tried yanking 4 sensors from junk cars, 2 successes, 2 failures. the ones that came out were the newer type which has a metal flange which the bolt goes through. the older type are all plastic. I didn't actually break any, but if it would not budge, I left it behind. they looked good, no cracks, so into the tools box they go!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOT2B GM Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 91 has an added piece of frame that an 88-90 does not, the 3.4 dohc third motor mount support. It can be gotten at from the bottom, but the top is easier on 91+ cars. I never thought of that..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 how I have seen some CPS fail is that overtime the heat will get to them and crack the casing which gets oil in it and eventually expands and quits working. what I did on my euro 3.4 was to take a dremel tool with a drill bit on it and drill right into the center of the sensor and then thread a drywall screw into it and rip it out that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91GPSTE Posted February 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Tried the screw trick today. Managed to rip the top piece out right to the point where the o-ring would sit. The rest of the sensor is still in there. Managed to break 3 drill bits while in there too, pieces of which are still stuck inside. I can't get to the damn thing from anywhere, not even with a dremel because of the exhaust manifold and that coolant sensor in the block right above it. My knuckles are scratched all over. I am done with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Fury Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Ill take it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GutlessSupreme Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Tried the screw trick today. Managed to rip the top piece out right to the point where the o-ring would sit. The rest of the sensor is still in there. Managed to break 3 drill bits while in there too, pieces of which are still stuck inside. I can't get to the damn thing from anywhere, not even with a dremel because of the exhaust manifold and that coolant sensor in the block right above it. My knuckles are scratched all over. I am done with it. the sensor above it is the knock sensor. I don't remember how hard it was to get out, but if it'll come easy, might as well try it. no fluids will leak from it or anything, it doesn't go straight through the block. I'd imagine it would be really hard to get from the bottom with the 4T60 in the way. thing's a beast. Have you tried removing the alternator + bracket? comes off in ~10 mins or less and it'll give you a lot more reaching room. I wouldn't know what else to tell ya, besides junk it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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