19Cutlass94 Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 All Im gonna say is this... if your bitching about how shitty these motors designs are because they need gaskets every 100,000miles maybe longer then sell the fucking car and buy something else... Theres plently of threads on this board of how to make power and how to swap engines... the search function does indeed work... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timestalker45 Posted July 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 ok first thing facts 2.8 first made in 1980 was in the buik skylark and chevy citation fetured a 2 barol rogchester for 2 years only 2.8 carb pushed 97-105hp, and 190 torq 2.8sfi pushed 125hp and 130 torq 3.1mfi pushed 130hp and 160-180 torq 3.1mfi last model 1994 pushed 180hp-190torq (gm did not change books or give true value of power) 3100sfi pushed 160hp and 180 torq 3400sfi pushed 179-187hp and 210 torq 3.4doc pushed 205hp and 225torq 3.8sfi pushed 199hp and 210 torq 3800sfi pushed 215hp and 220 torq the 3.1 and 3.4 produce true power meaning power at converter is seen at wheels 141 seen at wheels (tested on dyno) the 3.8 a 90 degree bore only pushes 135 hp at wheels (tested on dyno) Second i just want to say that i been to a number of junk yard and asked about 3400sfi engines and from most places i been to they had a very few number of good engines they had full car in perfect shape but the 3400 went and cost more to replace the gasket then get new car, hence the 50k car, most blew under warenty so the the dealer junked the cars and gave them new ones. From my mechanic which i finnaly talked to he said the over all cost in the end for the easy hp will cost more do to head gaskets going exspecially if i mod the engine, he said will cost more up front but moding my 3.1mfi but it would be cheaper in the long run, though it is harder to push power out of the 3.1mfi and 3100sfi the power is true power and that is why. that is why when u pull next to a charger with a hemi and u smoke him or take out an older mustang (earlie 2000) or u burn a grand prix gt(2 door) the power the 3.1 pushes out is all seen at the wheels so theres no power loss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 yes, you get the picture. But you forget... that was exactly how is was with the 3.1mpfi ten years earlier. they are still too new to be in the common junk yard from reasons such as rusted out bodies to wrecks, with good engines. Additionally, All the ones I've seen (about 20) except 3 were in U-vans with HIGH mileage, and those engines were worked SOOOOO FUCKKING HARD!!! Of those u-vans... almost half were taxicabs. the other 3... well 2 were in cars that were literally folded in half, and one was in a car that was set on fire. I think you should go for a 3800, as they are very reliable and you could get by salvaging one form a 92 or 93 regal (or similar) for the engine, tranny, computer, and the underhood wiring. it would be a direct swap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timestalker45 Posted July 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 good point sorry about that, but just to say the ones i saw with the 3400sfi were in monty carlos, and grandams. also the only reason i dotn want to go 3.8 with this was due to the direct power with the the 3.1mfi and 3100sfi they get better gas milage and u gain power at the wheels in gms 3.8 less gas milage and the actualy power at the wheels is less than what i stated. though no hard feeling against the 3800 i owned a grand prix with a 3800 gen2 and loved it but when my buddy blew my doors off with his cutlass i cried.....that is why when he decided to sell one of his i jumped. (he had 2 a white 1992 supreme s the one i baught, and a red 1993 cutlass supreme s, one fact i like mine better because the shifter is on the stering colum the red one has the shifter on the floor, both motors mine and his are not the original they are both the 1994 style 3.1mfi im glad i found this sight i do like my car its nice grant u i have had some probs as of late with surging and other thing but i think a lot is that the engine is a little more advanced than my computer is and that is why i am suffering so much but when shes not having probsive blown the doors off quite a few cars, still my freinds red cutlass kills mine.... i think its the transmission in that one i have a 4t60 his is a 4t60e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 3.1mfi and 3100sfi the power is true power and that is why. that is why when u pull next to a charger with a hemi and u smoke him or take out an older mustang (earlie 2000) or u burn a grand prix gt(2 door) the power the 3.1 pushes out is all seen at the wheels so theres no power loss am I reading this correctly where you are claiming that a 3.1/3100 will smoke a Hemi charger or a 4.6 DOHC mustang???? If that is what you are truly saying then you are out of your fuckin' mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 3.1mfi and 3100sfi the power is true power and that is why. that is why when u pull next to a charger with a hemi and u smoke him or take out an older mustang (earlie 2000) or u burn a grand prix gt(2 door) the power the 3.1 pushes out is all seen at the wheels so theres no power loss am I reading this correctly where you are claiming that a 3.1/3100 will smoke a Hemi charger or a 4.6 DOHC mustang???? If that is what you are truly saying then you are out of your fuckin' mind. that sounds funny to me. I think he is trying to say that they are relatively quick off the line, but I think he's over stating himself. Timestalker... Congratulations. You may have just created the worlds longest run on sentence!!! Seriously, try to work on your grammer and punctuation, it's very hard to read what you wrote! and... are you saying you have a 3.1 MPFI or a 3100 SFI from a 94 in your car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timestalker45 Posted July 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 off the line i have done it with a guy racing, but in the end i lostof course, but off the line i won. ok on other notes my 4t60 can be converted to a 4t60-e correct what also must be changed i know the troq converter fits but i mean ecm and other stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timestalker45 Posted July 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 i have 3.1mfi yes and u are correct that is what i was trying to say and sorry for the run off.. grammer..i suck at but hey cant be perfect at everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1138 Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 off the line i have done it with a guy racing, but in the end i lostof course, but off the line i won. I know it's been said... but this line just made me ROFL until I read it three times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaloutsider Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 off the line i have done it with a guy racing, but in the end i lostof course, but off the line i won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 No, a 4t60 CANNOT be converted to a 4t60e. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 FWIW... I have the 3.4DOHC... I hate working on it, hate the timing and all that, but thats because I've only got experience working on single cam engines. HOWEVER, I gotta hand it to that engine, it takes a hell of a beating, mine blew head gaskets around 190,000 km. (had 180,000km when I bought it, no record of maintenance before that) I had NO idea how to do the work and everyone I asked told me a completely different way to do it. Finally I paid to have it fixed and now, even after dumping all my coolant into the crank case, it runs better than it did when I bought it! Now at 207,000km it runs even better, it runs a bit better every time I do an oil change and general clean up (injector cleaner, filters, etc.) I've seen LQ1 cars in the wreckers around here OVER 450,000km (280,000 miles) One day, when money permits I will either do a OBDII swap and a turbo set up on the LQ1 or I will do an L67 swap, but either way, I have a lot of learning to do in the meantime! Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timestalker45 Posted July 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 what i mean is can i swap my 4t60 for a 4t60-e? maybe its the area and location that depends on the 3.4doc or3400sfi's reliability not trying to start anything but here in ny york every one i have talked to have said the motor is junk. Are winters and changeing temps prob the reason why these motors dont last Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Yeah winter has nothing to do with it, I'm in Ontario Canada. Some people just have bad luck with them I guess. Ever since I got mine fixed I haven't had a single problem with it. well thats not entirely true, I had an idle problem but that turned out to be an unplugged O2 sensor, once THAT was fixed, nothing has gone wrong with the engine. Reliability and negligence go hand in hand, if you maintain a car and its parts it will last a LONG time. My buddies dad drives over 2 hours to work and 2 hour home every day, when I first met the guy he had an Eagle Premier, with over 1 million km on it! (thats over 620,000 miles) When it finally went to the wreckers it was because the ball joint went on the highway. This man gets his oil changed once a month or more he does so much driving, but he stays on top of all his maintenance and his cars just keep going. You can swap out for the -e tranny once you do the OBDII swap I think. The difference being one is vacuum actuated the other is electronically controlled. Correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to remember reading somewhere that there is a 4t60-E-HD tranny you can swap to as well, I always though the HD was only on the 65s... Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 what i mean is can i swap my 4t60 for a 4t60-e? maybe its the area and location that depends on the 3.4doc or3400sfi's reliability not trying to start anything but here in ny york every one i have talked to have said the motor is junk. Are winters and changeing temps prob the reason why these motors dont last The motors are not junk. There are still people out there who call any motor that has fuel injection or a 'puter junk. Don't beleive all that you have been told. You could use the tranny from a 93 car, and the engine wiring harness and computer with the 93 PROM chip, and the 93 specific axles to covert your car to have a 4t60-e, but it would be mostly pointless, the 4t60 is probably a slightly better tranny the the 4t60-e, but [swapping in the E tranny] will not make your car any more powerful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 anyone who says these motors ar junk are ignorant and dont understand about the motors and dont know what regular maintainence is. swapping the trannies like said above is pointless. swap the motor, have a custom chip burned and be done with it. ( yes sounds easier than it really is ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timestalker45 Posted July 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 the only reason iw as asking about the 4t60-e was i know u can set shift points i know on mine the 4t60 u cant there pre determend and as for the topic on the 3.4 i am going to agree i know any mtor can go to infinity and beyond its just how u drive them and matain them. As for every one here u think the 3400sfi or 3.4doc would be a good switch and ure all sure that if i moded eather one they would handle say a custom turbo a port and polish and a bigger throttle body? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBULS Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 All I have to say is good fucking luck even MATCHING a 100% stock 3400 for power when you mod your little 3.1L MFI motor. You can bore it, port it, cam it, chip, and throw every bolt-on on earth at it............and it'll MAYBE match a stock 3400. *I* would just swap in a low mileage 3400 and go from there........it's the easiest and cheapest to do..............just learn to do LIM gaskets........it's actually pretty easy once you get down to it. With the already agressive W-Body torque covertor (it'll stall around 2800-3000rpm after a 3400 swap) and plenty of low end grunt, you'll have more than enough to turn the tires into pollution, and a few bolt-ons and they are almost as strong as a 3.4L DOHC on the top end..............until you change the stock shiftpoint a bunch that is (LQ1's SHINE with about an extra 500rpm worth up top) Seriously though.........a stock 3400 will drop about 1.5 seconds off your current 1/4 time, and a few bolt-ons will have you easily into the 15's. Not too bad for <$1000 total investment...... ANd plenty of J-Body guys have >300whp with turboed 3400's and 3500's on only @10psi of boost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBULS Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 BTW...........if you want a comparison of a lightly modded 3400 SFI (intake, UDP, exhaust) vs a moderately modded 3.1L MFI (intake, throttlebody, chip, UDP, cat/muffler) watch these three videos: http://www.berettaspeed.com/canada/Videos/Canada%20vs%20KFLO%200-107mph%201.wmv http://www.berettaspeed.com/canada/Videos/Canada%20vs%20KFLO%200-107mph%202.wmv http://www.berettaspeed.com/canada/Videos/Canada%20vs%20KFLO%2040-107mph.wmv To make matters worse, the 3.1L/3 speed auto Beretta's actually have a MORE agressive torque convertor (about 500rpm more stall), although actual overall gearing between it and the later 4 speed autos is very similar...........this means that given IDENTICAL trannies, the 3.1L would be even SLOWER. Now tell me whether you think a 3400 isn't worth it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timestalker45 Posted July 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 ok so how much total are we looking at to swap, and what car would u sudgest steeling it from.Plus ur saying that probably useing a berettas transmission would be better too? is that even posibble? i mean how much can be done to my cutllass as far as a swap and what would be the tottal cost in guessing? after seeing that vid wow u made ur point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 a beretta tranny will not fit a w-car you can find a 3400 in a mess of cars, recent year chevy venture, pontiac montana, grand am, alero, impalas. pluse a mess of them that i am leaving out i'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timestalker45 Posted July 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 ok so what do i need completely from a junk yard to swap out my multi port, and what would work better using my mfi system or using the sfi and converting my car completely over? also i would have to up grade my tranny from the 4t60 to the 4t60-e correct and that should connect right to my half axels and every thing? also is there any mods i can do to the tranny i mean to get a better preformance? I'm sorry im full of q's ok i got a list 1. what year 3400 should i go for that will be a direct swap and easy 2. low milage as in what range 3.as i asked above what is better as preformance my intake desing the mfi or the sfi 4. prot and polishing, and any exstra things i should do before instaling bad ideas and good 5. what all needs to be instaled in my car to make this work, as in what do i need with the 3400 and what is compatible with my 92's desing not trying to be cheap but dont want to waste money so recommendations are grate, along with ideas i plan on going all out to get the most from what i buy. thanks for showing me the light man the 3400 burnign the doors off that 3.1 made me cry it was a hard lesson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBULS Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 a beretta tranny will not fit a w-car Actually it will (the 4T60-E anyway). But it has worse gearing (2.97 or 2.93 FDR vs 3.33) and a much lower stall torque convertor (~2000rpm vs ~2700rpm), AND you have to swap side covers to get the W-Body tranny mount to bolt up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBULS Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 ok so what do i need completely from a junk yard to swap out my multi port, and what would work better using my mfi system or using the sfi and converting my car completely over? also i would have to up grade my tranny from the 4t60 to the 4t60-e correct and that should connect right to my half axels and every thing? also is there any mods i can do to the tranny i mean to get a better preformance? I'm sorry im full of q's ok i got a list 1. what year 3400 should i go for that will be a direct swap and easy 2. low milage as in what range 3.as i asked above what is better as preformance my intake desing the mfi or the sfi 4. prot and polishing, and any exstra things i should do before instaling bad ideas and good 5. what all needs to be instaled in my car to make this work, as in what do i need with the 3400 and what is compatible with my 92's desing not trying to be cheap but dont want to waste money so recommendations are grate, along with ideas i plan on going all out to get the most from what i buy. thanks for showing me the light man the 3400 burnign the doors off that 3.1 made me cry it was a hard lesson Ok.........3400. My advice is to get an 03 or newer (they made 3400's through 06 IIRC) for a couple of reasons: 1) Newer/lower mileage (a friend of mine just got a 38K mile '04 3400 for $550, and another got an '01 2K mile 3400 3 years ago for $345 to give an idea of prices). 2) Some detail improvements beginning in '03 (redesigned rockers, slightly freer flowing plenum etrc) to internals that help boost reliability and help performance *slightly*. 3) Did I mention newer? Now..........a 4T60-E swap IS feasible. The tranny is virtually the same (and can be just about any year I believe), but with electronic controls. You WILL need the 60-E PCM (Powertrain Control Module) with it's extra memory, which *should* plug right in. This can be had from any 3.4L DOHC W-Body car, or any 93-94 3.1L MFI (although in 94, the MFI motor with the 60-E was ONLY found in the Lumina). You will also need a 3.1L chip..........I have *heard* an LQ1 (3.4L DOHC) chip will RUN a 3.1, but that's only hearsay and likely it won't run it very well. Here's the thing...........you MAY need an engine bay harness from a 60-E equiped car.........because frankly, I don't know if you have all the plug-ins and connectors you need. Somebody smarter (check 60 deg V6 forums) than I will have to tell you details of this. Now, for performance mods...... The tranny shouldn't need too much. The factory 3.33 final drive ratio works pretty well with the stock torque convertor (which already has a decent stall). I'd just consider replacing any seeping/leaking gaskets/seals when it's out and stick in a new filter and fluid. Engine-wise, 3400's don't need any porting or anything unless you are going with a bigger cam AND a set of headers (which are not made specifically for 1st gen W's, but can be MODIFIED to fit). I WOULD get a chip with much higher shiftpoints programmed into it though. Look for a 1-2 shift at 5900-6100rpm, a 2-3 at 5800-6000rpm and a 3-4 shift at around 5700rpm to maximise the 3400's higher rpm powerband. I'd also look at a 6200-6250rpm rev limit (about all the stock valvetrain is good for). Throw in a true fenderwell/cold air intake, an FFP underdrive pulley (or one of the new MRZ pullies just hitting the market......it's an FFP clone) and a PROPERLY designed exhaust. This combo should net you a car that runs mid 15's all day long, and may sneak in a couple of 15.3-15.4's if you are luck............and run 130+mph if you eliminate the top speed governor Oh, and read http://www.3400swap.com from cover to cover. It's actually set for 3100 guys swapping to 3400's, but much of the info is also good for older MFI cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 a beretta tranny will not fit a w-car Actually it will (the 4T60-E anyway). I always thought the mounting boss' for the J,L,N body cars were vastly different from the w-body ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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