Irishman Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Hello All! I'd like to introduce myself as Brett Jarman, a Colorado resident and proud owner of a 1992 Olds Cutlass Supreme SL with the 3.4L DOHC V6. Just under 31,000 original miles and has been a wonderful vehicle that I've put lots of love into maintaining and customizing to my wife's and mine liking. I've been a tech since 16 but have mainly been focused on the electrical side of things such as remote starts, audio, On-Star etc. I have completely rebuilt and hot rodded several F-Bodies from scratch but the Cutlass is a new adventure for me. Stumbled across this forum about a month back and have been trolling and reading ever since. Besides general maintenance (all done myself since I have been a tech for so long) and major tune-ups the main modifications have been the audio system which was custom done with two amplifiers, Polk crossovers, beryllium metal Polk Tweeters, Infinity Kappa 6.5" and 6 X 9's, custom to spec bass reflex box and Polk DVC 12" Subwoofer along with an Alpine headunit and 4 guage power wire all around and LED glow bars throughout the trunk. Recently I've come across a few issues and I've been trying to resolve them to no avail as of yet. The HUD unit that had previously worked flawlessly no longer is functional. I had removed the dash pad and interior components in order to modify and install the audio system, and when everything was reinstalled the HUD no longer functioned regardless of position or intensity adjustments. I removed it again and cleaned all components and checked all connections to find out that nothing is improper or dirty but still no positive results. It'd be nice to have the HUD back but it isn't imperative. The other issue occurred just the other day and is what I am currently working through and diagnosing. Normal driving conditions (ie. no hard acceleration or stopping etc) the Cutlass bucked twice then stalled and died. Getting plenty of fuel pressure at the rail (42 psi when primed and 40-41psi under cranking conditions) and when I removed the 2,4, and 6 spark plugs there was a distinct smell of fuel and they were damp with fuel as well. using a spark plug testing tool where I can ground it and adjust the gap, I plugged it into the No. 1 plug wire and cranked it over.... no spark when gapped properly under any conditions. That's as far as I've gotten as I am typing this in the garage. Assuming I will have to test and possibly removed the ICM and possibly coils as well. Any feedback or pointing in the right direction is appreciated. Thanks and happy motoring! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1988PhantomFE3 Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 I'm getting a newer '94 HUD if you want my '92 HUD? It was tested and passed when my Dad got it, but we never put it in. Welcome to the W-Body Forum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishman Posted June 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 I'm getting a newer '94 HUD if you want my '92 HUD? It was tested and passed when my Dad got it, but we never put it in. Welcome to the W-Body Forum! Thank you very much for the offer Phantom! Before we go down that route, is there a reasonable way to pull off my unit and test it to see if it is the unit or the wiring? Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1988PhantomFE3 Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 I'm not really sure, I'm am sure the members here will answer that question soon. We're adding the HUD, DIS & Digital Dash to our 1994 at this time. They never came in our car, but we want them in there. We have most all the parts and this forum has been the ONLY way I have found to find information on the install. Do you have any pics of your ride? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95cutlass Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Welcome! You are going to have to post a couple of pics up of your car! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishman Posted June 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Here are a few pics I just snapped in the garage... the headunit in it currently is a Sony unit, just have to swap to my new Alpine. And a pic of what I was smoking yesterday for Father's Day too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Your stalling issue does sound like a possible ICM... Especially if you arent getting spark... If the plugs and wires are original, it wouldnt hurt to replace them as well... If you replace the ICM and still dont have spark, then I would look at the coil pack being bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishman Posted June 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Your stalling issue does sound like a possible ICM... Especially if you arent getting spark... If the plugs and wires are original, it wouldnt hurt to replace them as well... If you replace the ICM and still dont have spark, then I would look at the coil pack being badThanks Al, preciate the response I am fairly budget limited so I try to diagnose without having to buy parts first hence why I'm going down these routes first. I get no spark during cranking and since it won't catch I can't tell if I have spark or not when it is running so trying to figure out how to get access to the ICM and coil packs right now since that isn't obvious.... For my own sanity I was hoping you or someone could confirm for me something; The ICM is attached to the mounting plate that the coil packs are mounted to on the front of the engine below the exhaust manifold and directly above the starter... correct? Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Yep, the coils mount to the icm with 6 5.5mm bolts, once the coils are off, unplug the icm and its out... the icm is the mounting plate that they are attached to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishman Posted June 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Yep, the coils mount to the icm with 6 5.5mm bolts, once the coils are off, unplug the icm and its out... the icm is the mounting plate that they are attached to Thanks for the info, I'll get checking on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishman Posted June 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 The ICM as y'all know is highly shrouded by the wire and hoses underneath it and the exhaust manifold above it.... is there a trick to getting it out that someone knows, such as rotating the engine etc? And if rotating the engine is the best bet, is disconnecting the dog leg the only thing needed before it rotates or do i need to disconnect connectors or hoses etc... thanks again!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishman Posted June 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Ok so after fighting everything under the engine for a while I finally got access to the connectors that plug into the ICM. Went through the test procedure by turning the ignition to the ON position (but not cranking) and on the 6 pin connector, when looking at it and the retainer clip up, using a multimeter with a good ground probed the farthest left pin (labeled "L" in the Haynes service manual) and read 1.05 V in DC voltage setting. Supposedly, anything less than a 7 volt reading at that pin means that there is damage in the primary ignition circuit from the ignition switch to the ICM and needs to be repaired.... I am taking this as a 100% definite result that THIS is the reason for the Cutlass not starting and why it originally died, would that assumption be correct from y'alls experience? Thanks for the speedy reply, trying to get our primary car back to daily duty! Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 unless the crank sensor is your problem. I would throw in some junk yard parts to try and rule it out first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishman Posted June 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 unless the crank sensor is your problem. I would throw in some junk yard parts to try and rule it out first.Thanks for the tip Garrett, I'll certainly look into that, is there a way to positively rule out or point to the crank sensor as either good/bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado_735 Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Welcome Brett, your CS is beautiful. These guys have you pointed in the right direction. I'm am unsure what kind of damage you would have that would cause that L pin to only have 1 volt...I'm leaning toward the ICM being the culprit because it would seem more likely that you would only lose one pair of cylinders if just a coil went, and you've lost the entire set...Of course, that's not foolproof; I once lost a pair of cylinders and drove home on 4...thought it was the coil, and it was the ICM. Throw a junkyard ICM on there, and give it a crank. Worst case, you have a spare ICM Again, welcome to the forum!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado_735 Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Oh, and as for telling whether or not the crank sensor is good/bad, that requires a scanner to see if the sensor is giving out pulses when the engine is being cranked, or a new/different sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losh Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Welcome to the board. Very envious of the paint on that car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbex Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 I love how your license plate is 303... Well, unless you don't live in that area code, I guess it wouldn't be as cool.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95cutlass Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Very clean car! Wish mine had that low of miles on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishman Posted June 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 Thanks for all the kind words and welcome everyone, very generous and I appreciate it! As for the paint, it's in decent condition but the old lady that had it before us rubbed it slightly on both sides on the hips trying to get it into the garage but it isn't terribly obvious so that is so so. Well I found that at the fuse block for the DIS fuse (10 amp) I DO have 12 volts, but at the L pin it is only 1.026 V.... since I am MECP certified for auto electrical I felt comfortable making a fused jumper harness and sent 12 volts to the L pin and checked to see if it would light when the L pin had voltage.... No go. Sourced a ICM and as typing this I am removing the old one to swap in the new one (after I get it on the bench and test to see that is) and get this bad boy running again. Thanks all and I will keep y'all posted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GtpKo Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 Brand new ICM, or a used/refurb one? If it still doesn't work, there is a possibility the new one could be bad as well. I once had a similar problem in my 1990 Olds 88, I swapped out the ICM with a junkyard unit only to find the one I pulled was also bad(worse). I tried another j/y one and then it was fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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