AWeb80 Posted December 26, 2008 Report Share Posted December 26, 2008 I'd like to make some for the fronts.....but I'm not sure on how to start w/ a design... anyone have any input? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL Posted December 26, 2008 Report Share Posted December 26, 2008 I can ask the parts store for some and send them to you for reference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWeb80 Posted December 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2008 no I'm thinking of something like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohc v6 Posted December 27, 2008 Report Share Posted December 27, 2008 I am making them for the j-body. I just got them back from the waterjetter. I can make a set for you if you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohc v6 Posted December 27, 2008 Report Share Posted December 27, 2008 The ones in the pic are cardboard, these are a proto-type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted December 27, 2008 Report Share Posted December 27, 2008 anyone wanna be brave and try washers behind the hubs? Adam, here are a couple guidelines to take into consideration (everything is considering a custom front coilover design things should still be applicable if you arent getting that involved): You want to keep the shock mounting location the same distance away from the body of the car. That is unless you are planning on lowering the car by means of shock/spring mounting location. This gets more involved when you are changing spring rates. I'm actually from the softer is better school of thought, but thats a whole different discussion. Shock mounting is important. I'd make sure you have a thrust rating that is easily capable of supporting your car on a single wheel and then work in an even higher saftey factor. Good spherical bearings to use are Aurora. They supply like everyone doing everything. Typically on normal spherical bearings the thrust rating is about 10% - 15% of the radial load. Keep this in mind and keep everyone safe. There are also spherical bearings made specifically for taking a thrust load There are ways to make camber plates with a radial loaded bearing, which I would be more comfortable with, but i'm guessing the reason you don't see this as much is because its more expensive and the other design works anyway. As brought up in the other thread, you can mount the spring on a perch that goes with the strut. beyond this, hysteresis from the spring and shock going through their motions doesn't even merit discussion, believe me, i've tried with many auto industry suspension experts and they just shut me down Spherical bearings are meant to be pressed in, not welded in. You press them in with about one or two thou of interference. Basically finishing the bore of the bearing sleeve with a ream should be the last thing you do to the piece before you press the bearing in (mostly applies to welded construction). Consult the bearing people on how to install them. Your design should also include thrust bearings to freely allow steering. If you have a pressed in bearing, it should be supported in all loads that it might see in driving, this is where the radially mounted bearing wins some points. It might be cool to add in some caster adjustment, as you can see those slots on the top plate on the picture you provided does. People who are adjusting caster and can see an improvement going around a track probably wouldn't be driving w-bodies though I dunno, i hope i answered what you were looking for here. you should ask some more specific questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohc v6 Posted December 27, 2008 Report Share Posted December 27, 2008 Umm, ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olds W31 Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 People who are adjusting caster and can see an improvement going around a track probably wouldn't be driving w-bodies though Wanna bet? I can burn corners in anything....its not the car, its the driver. If Mario Andretti drove a Chevette, he could lay waste to most if not all of us on this board...the difference is in understanding the dynamics of what you are doing while driving, then employing the energy to your advantage, or, conversely, using your opponents energy or lack thereof against him/her. Besides, what is 9/10ths into the danger zone to me is prob 2 or 3/10ths to a professional driver. I would look for the caster/camber adjustment for "feel" and response. I think my Cutlass is sadly lacking in the directional stability department, as it is made to be "comfortable", and, in GM's all knowing mind, that means "squishy" and "aimless", rather than athletic and inspiring. DOHC V6: How much for the plates you are working on? Would they be applicable to a W Body? BTW, nice MDF prototype! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venom Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 IIRC Z34NUT said his Z34 could outhandle his Z06 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted To Boost Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 IIRC Z34NUT said his Z34 could outhandle his Z06 What was done to it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 IIRC Z34NUT said his Z34 could outhandle his Z06 Yeah, I think I recall that he did say that Honestly, I think a properly built and setup W-body can rip some evil turns, and I intend to prove that with my TGP as most of the build will be in the suspension area.. While camber/caster plates will be nice, but for most people, they wont notice a change in 1degree+ caster... Our appx 2-2.5degrees+ caster is far from what would be wanted for stability and response, but it aids in returnability.. You really want to notice a difference, you would need about 4-5degrees+, except for those of use who notice the slightest change.. And for the majoriity or people, our camber is adjustable.. Slotting the strut towers is an approved method Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venom Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 IIRC Z34NUT said his Z34 could outhandle his Z06 What was done to it? You'd have to ask him or search his posts, but just some basic bolt-ons and coil-overs I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWeb80 Posted December 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 He Has The Same Stuff Done As Me.....minus A Rear STB IIRC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 People who are adjusting caster and can see an improvement going around a track probably wouldn't be driving w-bodies though Wanna bet? I can burn corners in anything....its not the car, its the driver. If Mario Andretti drove a Chevette, he could lay waste to most if not all of us on this board...the difference is in understanding the dynamics of what you are doing while driving, then employing the energy to your advantage, or, conversely, using your opponents energy or lack thereof against him/her. Besides, what is 9/10ths into the danger zone to me is prob 2 or 3/10ths to a professional driver. I would look for the caster/camber adjustment for "feel" and response. I think my Cutlass is sadly lacking in the directional stability department, as it is made to be "comfortable", and, in GM's all knowing mind, that means "squishy" and "aimless", rather than athletic and inspiring. DOHC V6: How much for the plates you are working on? Would they be applicable to a W Body? BTW, nice MDF prototype! Beleive me, I know what a driver can do on a course to make up time. I've been crushed driving in an international competition with other drivers having cart and formula series experience and me with just practice. The way I tried to direct the comment is actually backed up by your point. I was mostly saying that caster changes are not really noticable (TIME-WISE) unless you have a shit ton of experience driving many different setups. Since I know of nobody competitively driving a w-body and who goes out and makes incremental suspension changes, thats where the comment came from. Besides, if you were that good, i dont know why youd be driving a w-body anyway. Caster is typically used to increase mechanical trail which will change the steering feel, which is more or less lost since we have power steering. (If anyone has somehow gotten a manual rack to work, let me know, i'm interested to know what was done). Caster is used to great advantage in cart racing though, where there is no suspension and when you steer you are effectively changing the geometry of your tires to the ground by more or less lifting part of the car off the ground. It makes for a tiring drive though. Drive any fully manual race car for a while and you will have a great appreciation for what race drivers do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohc v6 Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 Mr32a, PLease post a pic of your self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 My car pulls some hard corners! And now with the 255s on it, it just doesn't break loose. And for those that don't know, my set up is in my sig That being said, I can take a corner good enough in my little Accent that I can make my passengers hold on for dear life. (I get kicks out of watching them grab for anything they can) Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 Here is the picture you requested Don't forget that changes in camber via top plates need to be followed up in changes to the tie rod to correct the toe. Guys have clever ways of dealing with this. The best way that I have heard is once you adjust the camber from the top plates, adjust one of the tie rods (like rotate it clockwise 4.5 turns, ONLY ON ONE SIDE) and drive like that at the track and deal with the steering wheel not being centered and then just rotate it back at the end of the day. It wont be perfect, but most alignments arent anyway. It would also be a good time to take up one of those lifetime alignment offers that many places have and get one whenever you feel like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olds W31 Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 Here is the picture you requested Very nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohc v6 Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Thats explains everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpchris Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 Lets keep this alive! I need camber plates! Adam or mark wana make them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWeb80 Posted January 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 Looks Like Mark Has A Better Handle On Them Than I Do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohc v6 Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I'll make them. But I need atleast 5 people. They will run around $150-170 shipped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpchris Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I'll make them. But I need atleast 5 people. They will run around $150-170 shipped. Im in.. You should make a little coilover perch for adjustable coilovers on these mounts.. Also must load them with spherical bearings or poly bushings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 I'll make them. But I need atleast 5 people. They will run around $150-170 shipped. DAMN!!! Thats actually a great deal. I would have no problem with that... I would have went with your control arms, but the price didnt dictate getting something that wasnt exactly like I wanted, nothing against you by any means.. Thats why I had to back out.. But $200 at the most for adjustable mounts, cant go wrong by any means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpchris Posted January 12, 2009 Report Share Posted January 12, 2009 So then we have 2 now? btw I didnt back out.. Im just trying to decide between heim joints or poly bushings.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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