Heza Posted October 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 have you actually driven a 305? TPI 305's put out some nice performance numbers considering what it was. ever drive a late 305, before it was discontinued? around town it's a good motor. up until 40 they're not bad, but they do loose most their power after that i'd still take a 305 Chevy over a 4.6 SOHC Ford anyday however.....that piece of shit is weak at ANY speed. yes...my friend's mom had a 305 camaro. i have driven one. if anything...id take 302 HO mustang. since...you know...it did hold up with the 350 TPI of the day. i have the article that shows it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93CutlassSupreme Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 have you actually driven a 305? TPI 305's put out some nice performance numbers considering what it was. ever drive a late 305, before it was discontinued? around town it's a good motor. up until 40 they're not bad, but they do loose most their power after that i'd still take a 305 Chevy over a 4.6 SOHC Ford anyday however.....that piece of shit is weak at ANY speed. yes...my friend's mom had a 305 camaro. i have driven one. if anything...id take 302 HO mustang. since...you know...it did hold up with the 350 TPI of the day. i have the article that shows it. that is, IF you can find a 302 Mustang that isn't held together by bondo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heza Posted October 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 have you actually driven a 305? TPI 305's put out some nice performance numbers considering what it was. ever drive a late 305, before it was discontinued? around town it's a good motor. up until 40 they're not bad, but they do loose most their power after that i'd still take a 305 Chevy over a 4.6 SOHC Ford anyday however.....that piece of shit is weak at ANY speed. yes...my friend's mom had a 305 camaro. i have driven one. if anything...id take 302 HO mustang. since...you know...it did hold up with the 350 TPI of the day. i have the article that shows it. that is, IF you can find a 302 Mustang that isn't held together by bondo my friend...they are all over down south! i see them every day. a bunch back in MN too because no one drives them in the winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93CutlassSupreme Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 have you actually driven a 305? TPI 305's put out some nice performance numbers considering what it was. ever drive a late 305, before it was discontinued? around town it's a good motor. up until 40 they're not bad, but they do loose most their power after that i'd still take a 305 Chevy over a 4.6 SOHC Ford anyday however.....that piece of shit is weak at ANY speed. yes...my friend's mom had a 305 camaro. i have driven one. if anything...id take 302 HO mustang. since...you know...it did hold up with the 350 TPI of the day. i have the article that shows it. that is, IF you can find a 302 Mustang that isn't held together by bondo my friend...they are all over down south! i see them every day. a bunch back in MN too because no one drives them in the winter. must be nice. Michigan winters tear up cars. all over the place up here i see rusted-out 302 Mustangs with young white punks driving them thinking they're badass as hell because the fenders say 5.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heza Posted October 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 MN is a salt master in the winter. but still, i never see 302 outside in the winter. they all come out in spring. isnt that stupid seeing little high schoolers try n be badass in rusted 5.0s? i hated that when i was younger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93CutlassSupreme Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 MN is a salt master in the winter. but still, i never see 302 outside in the winter. they all come out in spring. isnt that stupid seeing little high schoolers try n be badass in rusted 5.0s? i hated that when i was younger. it's gay as hell. almost as bad as rice. people in MN must have different attidutes towards cars. in Detroit nobody gives a shit about their cars. if you fuck yours up, no big deal. every corner lot has a used car for sale, and the Ford dealers around here pratically give away brand new cars. you don't even have to try to get a salesman to drastically drop the price of a new Ford. they don't want to loose their sales lead to Chevrolet, which is selling almost as much as Ford now. it was in the Detroit News. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biff85ta Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 I just droped the pan and changed the filter and added Type-F fluid.I haven't noticed any real differences yet, I'm sure I need another flush to get all the Dexron out. yes... biff85ta...what is the right way to get firmer shifts on a 4t60/e? the b&m shift enhancer is a piece of shit that doesnt work. rebuilding the transmission to add the Transgo shift enhancer kit is not really feasible either. if adding type f fluid helps and doesnt promote anymore harm than dexron does, but has the potential from tightening the shifts...what the hell is wrong with that. on that sense since im somewhat annoyed with your post about "doing it the right way"...what is the right way then? oh...also...5.0 TPI...not a fast motor. true Chevy followers even admit that the 305 was a wasted effort. dont talk unless you know what the fuck you are talking about. Compared to the w I have it sure a shit is fast. You have a family car. It was never intended to be used as a sports car. i have worked on damn near every type of car in existance and I now my car is not the fastest but it will sure smoke you. Before you accuse someone of not knowing what the are talking about make sure they don't. if you think a bottle of something is fine then do it but please don't bitch when you are buying the new tranny asshole. funny...because both my roommate and i have beaten 305s with 3.4s. his ex had one and smoked several "super" 305s, and ive had my taste of 305d camaros/trans ams. 305s are shit motors. you never answered my question either. how do you do it the right way? i wont buy a new tranny...i will rebuild mine myself. thank you...i am mechanically inclined. now answer my question from however many posts ago, or fuck off. Look asshole I am just trying to say that a fluid is not the answer. How to mod a 4t60e is something you need to find the answer for as I could car less but a bottle of fluid is a band aid not a fix. Of course I would assume since trans go offers a kit it can be done but no i do not know the mechanics of it as modding a 4t60e has never been a priority. I will however since you think you 3.4 is big and bad offer you this challenge go to a track run a few passes take a pic of your best slip. Post a pic and I will do the same after next sat. When mine is better you can get off my back about my slow 305. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heza Posted October 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Look asshole I am just trying to say that a fluid is not the answer. How to mod a 4t60e is something you need to find the answer for as I could car less but a bottle of fluid is a band aid not a fix. Of course I would assume since trans go offers a kit it can be done but no i do not know the mechanics of it as modding a 4t60e has never been a priority. I will however since you think you 3.4 is big and bad offer you this challenge go to a track run a few passes take a pic of your best slip. Post a pic and I will do the same after next sat. When mine is better you can get off my back about my slow 305. blah blah blah. did i ever say my 3.4 was big and bad? no. i just simply stated that my 3.4 has taken 305s. did i ever call you names? no. i let that work for you though. hiding behind your computer screen when youd never do the same to my face. the whole Type F fluid in a GM tranny is not a bandaid...its an old secret thats been used for a while. i was just bringing it up again, getting more info on it. then you...high almighty decided to jump in with your comments, not really supporting anything that helped my research...just blah blah blahing and calling me an asshole. ironically...the whole "Compared to the w I have it sure a shit is fast"...what isnt faster than the 3.1 MPFI? the only thing i envision when i read about you and your 305 TA, is you sitting like Adam Sandler in Billy Madison acting cool in your antiquitated (meaning old) 305 TA acting cool in high school again...which, youre probably still in. you talk, with no real facts to back your argument up with. it shows too. im done with this argument now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Enough of the fighting between you two. control the badmouthing back and forth so we could somehow get back on topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveFromColorado Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Brian is right, enough fighting. Shift kits are NOT the answer to the 4t60-E transmissions, I've worked on them inside and out, I feel that i know them probably better then you. You say you've worked on every car in existance - that doesn't mean you're an expert on any ONE car, but that you're more of a general tech ... Okay - so if you want firmer shifts - type F is the first step, without rebuilding the trans that is. Type F is NOT a band-aid (please, read the whole post I made about it on http://www.60degreev6.com before you say anything else about it) Type F will promote tighter clutches, with in turn will have less heat, firmer shifts, better fuel milage due to less trans slippage, and Torque Converter slippage. Granted, you may not notice a HUGE improvement on a lower milage transmission as the clutches are still fairly better, but you will see a difference period, that's the point. Anyhow, since the 4t60-E uses electronic solenoids for shifting, you'd need to re-chip your computer to cut the "crossover" timing down, remember, the 4t60 E version of the transmission doesn't use accumulators to soften the shifting ... if you want more information about the shift points/activation in the chips, please ask Vegeta as he will be able to cover that aspect of the "performance" setup. Of course, if you really want to get into the trans, you can drill out a couple holes in the spacer plate, and a couple holes in the valve body/trans case shifting circut paths, enlarge the activation circuts in the input shaft, and even pull every other spring out of the the clutch deactivators, along with a 15% lighter spring behind the 1-2 and 2-3 solenoids, or faster activating solenoid motors. you can also change the crossover shift springs too, if you really want a 0% crossover and a 100% activation, then for TIGHTER activation yet, you can cut the clutch steels down .010 and the pressure plate steel down .040 and add an extra clutch and steel to each one of the clutch packs. --Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biff85ta Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Enough of the fighting between you two. control the badmouthing back and forth so we could somehow get back on topic. I agree and I got out of hand. Dave thanks for putting this back on track. I am done with this thread and we will have to agree to disagree. I still don't believe that type f is a good idea but then again what others do to thier cars is not really my concern. I should not have reacted the way I did but not like having my car ragged on and being told to fuck off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THe_DeTAiL3R Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Okay so this will be the last time that I ask, cause I don't want to beat this thread with a stick.. If I were to drop the pan on my 95 and top up the existing fluid with type-F, is there ANYTHING that can go wrong? Anything at all? Cause I just got this car and sure as hell am not gonna risk damage to the transmission even if the chances are very low. It has 218000km (160000 in miles I think) and it seems to shift very well. I'd be doing this as more of a preventative maintence thing rather than a real performace enhancement.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpse_97 Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Okay so this will be the last time that I ask, cause I don't want to beat this thread with a stick.. If I were to drop the pan on my 95 and top up the existing fluid with type-F, is there ANYTHING that can go wrong? Anything at all? Cause I just got this car and sure as hell am not gonna risk damage to the transmission even if the chances are very low. It has 218000km (160000 in miles I think) and it seems to shift very well. I'd be doing this as more of a preventative maintence thing rather than a real performace enhancement.. I just did that yesterday there isn't any issues if you do this, it will work fine. I plan opn doing it again in a few months to get all the Dexron III out. lates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveFromColorado Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Okay so this will be the last time that I ask, cause I don't want to beat this thread with a stick.. If I were to drop the pan on my 95 and top up the existing fluid with type-F, is there ANYTHING that can go wrong? Anything at all? Cause I just got this car and sure as hell am not gonna risk damage to the transmission even if the chances are very low. It has 218000km (160000 in miles I think) and it seems to shift very well. I'd be doing this as more of a preventative maintence thing rather than a real performace enhancement.. It really depends on whether or not the transmission has been serviced in the past. if it has NEVER been serviced, swapping the fluid with ANY new fluid could destroy the transmission - (quick explanation) - this happens because varnish builds up on the valves which will score the valve body, and attach to the seals in the transmission, the new fluid with fresh detergents will wash away this varnish leaving too much clearance between the valves, and the valve body, along with exposing any cracks in the seals, with will eventually allow larger holes in the seals to form - so if it's never been serviced, don't start now, unless you're startin' to get some serious problems that you're trying to fix if it has been regularly serviced, you can mix F and Dex-III/Merc V together - I in fact recomend top off's to be done with Type F, this will promote better clutch lockup on already worn clutches and steel plates ... Biff - I can see where your logic is commin' from, most often you want to stick with what the manufacturer recomends - this is the ONLY case where I'll say use differently. for you manual trans guys, I HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY recmoned using ACTUAL GM Synchro-Mesh trans fluid - honestly, it's designed to promote positive bearing lubrication, and better blocker-ring wear. --Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THe_DeTAiL3R Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 I'm still skeptical about not using the recommended Dex-III fluid, so I've been doing a little bit of reading. I haven't come across much yet, here is a little something though: http://www.drwtransmission.com/info.htm Many high-performance minded individuals may use Type F fluid in place of Dexron III /Mercon in order to get a harsher and quicker shift. That’s fine, but remember that Type F fluid oxidizes much quicker and will have to be changed more frequently. If you want to keep parts breakage to a minimum, I would recommend that you use Dexron III/Mercon and not Type F. The Dexron may give you just enough of a cushion during shifts to keep from over stressing hard parts. If you are using Type F in order to keep clutches or bands from burning up, then you have a problem with the transmission and the fluid type is only a Band-Aid. Have the problem with the transmission corrected. Now I've also read about Chysler's fluids, and how they are more "slippery" which leads me to believe thats why their trannys might crap out so much. I'm not putting down anyone's info, just trying to get as much info for myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveFromColorado Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 .. I'd like to take my poke at this article.. I emailed the author of the site as well stating something to the effect of this ... Type F does not Oxidize faster then Dex-III/Merc V. fluid because type F does not have the friction modifiers that Dex/Merc does. It's because of those modifiers that the fluid tends to oxidize faster. I would also like to point out that of the sources I have spoken to about type F fluid they have all stated that they have never seen ANY transmission which states to use Dextron III/Mercon fluid actually have any trouble from running type F, that it would not have had if it was running Dextron III. I can back this information up too, if you'd like to call "eden prairie transmission" in Eden Prairie, MN, or A&T Transmission in Thronton Colorado, or MSI Transmission in Richfield Minnesota they will all say the same thing. Type F transmission fluid will not make such a difference that it will destroy the hard parts in a transmission - in fact the anti-foaming agents in type F fluid are better, and because of the lack of modifiers added to it, it works better as a heat transducer too - plus with the lack of clutch slippage you will see that it will naturally run cooler anyhow. Trying to call type F in a GM trans a "band aid" is a crock too, I'm tired of hearing that - especially on these sites which claim to know what they are talking about. Remember, these are the same people who will say "use Lucas Treatment" even tho we've all seen that the lucas products have been proven to destroy engines by allowing too much air into the oil. Anyhow, saying it's a Band Aid imply's that you are using it, in hopes the transmission fixes itself, so a "band aid" is a bad analogy, that'd be like saying "I put a band aid on my cracked plug wire so I won't have to change the wire" doesn't make a whole lot of sense, it's more like "I modified my plug wire by using a DIFFERENT center core in it because the new core offers LESS resistance" (high resistant plug wires are known to burn out ignition coils by the way, low resistant wires will cause the coil to work "less hard" and never get as* hot). Adding type F to a tired slipping transmission will help hold it longer because you will not be letting the clutches slip as much, less slippage = less wear, less wear = longer life. You are not putting a "band aid" on it, you are "upgrading" to a newer product to help continue the service life of your unit. Again tho, if it's never been serviced - don't start now. --Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THe_DeTAiL3R Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 The fluid looks and smells good, I'm fairly sure it looks to have been serviced sometime during its life.... I will drop the pan one of these days regardless, as I have on the 4T60 on my 88 (which never gave me any problems, and I dropped the pan twice.. second time due to bad cork gasket). That car the fluid looked like coffee and had around 250,000km when I did it. Anyways DaveFromColorado, I trust you know what you are doing cause you sound like you know what you are talking about, but I was wondering if you have any sources online with info just for the sake of reading? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveFromColorado Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 C-Bad.. I'll look 'round for ya this evening - if I find somethin' I'll be sure to send it yer way --Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93CutlassSupreme Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 dave, when you said don't service a trans with nasty fluid, did you mean for that to apply to a pan drop or flush, or both? we all know how a pan drop doesn't change all the fluid, so would a pan drop on a trans with nasty fluid still cause problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveFromColorado Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 well there's a real difference between nasty fluid and burned fluid - burned fluid is easier to get away with, NASTY, such as extremely yellow fluid would be REAL BAD to change. I've heard* no more then 30% to all the way up to 60% of the fluid can be chanced without problems - I honestly don't know how much you can get away with, I've lost two transmission by changing the fluid both of them were 125C transmissions, both times the Junkyard swapped them for me right away, both times they were 100% dry and I had to fill ALL the fluid. I don't want to even suggest tryin' to change the fluid/drop the pan, I wish I could be more helpful then that, but if I make a suggestion, and your trans blows up because of it, I'd feel like an ass. --Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93CutlassSupreme Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 i was just wondering, and i asked for further clarification. i guess brown fluid is ok to change, my fluid was dark brown, i dropped the pan on it about 8K ago and my trans is still with me. 1st to 2nd is getting a little rough though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THe_DeTAiL3R Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 1st to 2nd is getting a little rough though I think it's normal for 1st to 2nd to have a little punch to it, especially if you're giving it. Been like that on both my cars. My 4T60E is smooth under light throttle though. But a good firm shift is better than a messy slipping shift right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93CutlassSupreme Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 1st to 2nd is getting a little rough though I think it's normal for 1st to 2nd to have a little punch to it, especially if you're giving it. Been like that on both my cars. My 4T60E is smooth under light throttle though. But a good firm shift is better than a messy slipping shift right? i meant the whole car lurches slightly when shifting 1st-2nd. all other shifts are seamless but 1st-2nd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveFromColorado Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 could be one of the springs in the valve body is gettin' a little weak and not extending the crossover the way GM orignially wanted it to. --Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93CutlassSupreme Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 i've heard a bad vacuum modulator can make shifts rough anyways interesting fluid info dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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