Heza Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 ive been reading around all over and discussing with people about putting Type F in the 4t60e instead of Dextron III to harden the shifts up a lot more. from general consensus...it is stated that it does harden the shifts, but wont add any more than normal wear on the transmission. is this true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THe_DeTAiL3R Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Q: Does it mix with Dex III? I'm wondering cause when I drop the pan I want to know what would be best to put in... and there would obviously be lots of Dex left in there.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heza Posted October 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Q: Does it mix with Dex III? I'm wondering cause when I drop the pan I want to know what would be best to put in... and there would obviously be lots of Dex left in there.. its best to flush Type F in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnight rider Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 DO NOT MIX THE TWO TYPES OF FLUID. Type f will give you a firmer shift as it has an abrasive aditive in it the dexcron mercron III doesn't. Dexcron is made to give a softer shift. Type F was used in Fords because the shift felt sloppy to developers and they were seeking out ways to make it firmer. My trans giuy told me back when i did the trans in my truck that it won't matter which fluid i use as long as I don't mix them. He said they don't react well to one another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveFromColorado Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 not reacting well together?!? that's BS, you can mix 'em just fine ... and by the way, the friction modifiers are added to to the Dex III/Mercon V fluids (Zinc, phosphorus, and sulfur) and not to the type F you CAN mix the two without bad results. The reason it was done like this is because GM was lazy about designing their valve bodies, and rather then modifying the valve springs and accumulators to allow for a smoother shift, they added a modifier to the fluid to promote slippage between the clutches - this is why GM trani's will ware out and Ford Trani's will explode. I posted whole article on it (which made it to the main page) on http://www.60degreev6.com if you want to see it there, plus I posted the article here a long while ago. --Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heza Posted October 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 not reacting well together?!? that's BS, you can mix 'em just fine ... and by the way, the friction modifiers are added to to the Dex III/Mercon V fluids (Zinc, phosphorus, and sulfur) and not to the type F you CAN mix the two without bad results. The reason it was done like this is because GM was lazy about designing their valve bodies, and rather then modifying the valve springs and accumulators to allow for a smoother shift, they added a modifier to the fluid to promote slippage between the clutches - this is why GM trani's will ware out and Ford Trani's will explode. I posted whole article on it (which made it to the main page) on http://www.60degreev6.com if you want to see it there, plus I posted the article here a long while ago. --Dave. yeah, thats where i was about half way through my research on the subject. Type F wont rock the shit out of my 4t60e if i flush it through will it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveFromColorado Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 nope, sure won't. it's been a GM "performance upgrade" for years, where most people will just drop the pan, and top it off with F. that's what I did in my Regal, then I drove her 'round a couple days, then I flushed it with type F. --Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaloutsider Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Any harm in putting Type F in a 15-year-old, 175,000 mile 4T60? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maybe2fast Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 did it help? now there are generic trans fluids are those similar to type F? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THe_DeTAiL3R Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 did it help? now there are generic trans fluids are those similar to type F? They are all some sort of type. Even Walmart "Tech 2000" or whatver will say Dextron III or something... doesn't have to be from the GM dealership.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 I replaced 2 quarts with type F on my '90, it DID WORK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveFromColorado Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 when I put the type F in my trans (88 regal, 226k miles) it worked fine, the car is still driving today (I still wish I hadn't sold it) the car had regular trans fluid flushes thru it's life, so I was not worried about any problems however if your car had never been serviced - I would NOT recomend changing the fluid with type F or Dex III/Merc V as that can cause other issues in the transmission which can destroy it. --Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biff85ta Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 nope, sure won't. it's been a GM "performance upgrade" for years, where most people will just drop the pan, and top it off with F. that's what I did in my Regal, then I drove her 'round a couple days, then I flushed it with type F. --Dave. Do you know what that really does?? It causes the clutches to slip longer and then engage all at once. There are no magic fixes in a bottle. You might find something that will delay things but nothing will fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maybe2fast Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 No! I am talking about the trans fluid that you can use in all cars (generic) is that shit grippier than dextron? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heza Posted October 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 No! I am talking about the trans fluid that you can use in all cars (generic) is that shit grippier than dextron? yes...Type F is a friction type fluid. whereas....Dextron is a friction reducer type fluid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93CutlassSupreme Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 The reason it was done like this is because GM was lazy about designing their valve bodies, and rather then modifying the valve springs and accumulators to allow for a smoother shift, they added a modifier to the fluid to promote slippage between the clutches - this is why GM trani's will ware out and Ford Trani's will explode. --Dave. take it easy there. Phord uses the same fluid. last time i checked, Dex/Mercron come in the same bottle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpse_97 Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 The reason it was done like this is because GM was lazy about designing their valve bodies, and rather then modifying the valve springs and accumulators to allow for a smoother shift, they added a modifier to the fluid to promote slippage between the clutches - this is why GM trani's will ware out and Ford Trani's will explode. --Dave. take it easy there. Phord uses the same fluid. last time i checked, Dex/Mercron come in the same bottle. Not all fords use the same fluid. Type-F is used in certain fords, and I'm flushing my 4T60-E this weekend and putting Type-F in. I'll post any differences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveFromColorado Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Do you know what that really does?? It causes the clutches to slip longer and then engage all at once. There are no magic fixes in a bottle. You might find something that will delay things but nothing will fix it. Actually Biff, I do really know what it does. I'm not tryin' to sound like an ass here, but here's the basics of how it works. when your transmission is shifting from first to second gear the Hydraulic fluid will travel thru a bunch of "pressurized" circuts, including the govener circut (in non-electronic trans cars) which will determine how much pressure is on the "back side" of the valve to assist the spring pressure - once you reach a certian throtle angle/speed the "front side" of the valve will have more pressure then the "back side" which will cause the fluid to transfer to the next circut, usually with an accumulator in line to promote more slippage between the clutches. when you're using type F fluid, the clutches will tend to grab faster as they have no friction modifiers (reducers) it will not promote slippage then fast grabbing. If you're using Dex III/Merc V fluid you'll get the promoted slippage and smoother clutch engagement making the shifts "softer" or "less noticable" 93CutlassSupreme Do you know how to spell FORD, it's not spelled with a PH. Anyhow, yes, I know that some *FORD* transmissions use Dex III now - they switched to using it because it was/is quickly becoming the standard, and because of it's availability it's become less expensive. If you look at the newer transmissions however, they are all using a synthetic ATF with even more modifiers in it. --Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpse_97 Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 I just droped the pan and changed the filter and added Type-F fluid. I haven't noticed any real differences yet, I'm sure I need another flush to get all the Dexron out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biff85ta Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Do you know what that really does?? It causes the clutches to slip longer and then engage all at once. There are no magic fixes in a bottle. You might find something that will delay things but nothing will fix it. Actually Biff, I do really know what it does. I'm not tryin' to sound like an ass here, but here's the basics of how it works. when your transmission is shifting from first to second gear the Hydraulic fluid will travel thru a bunch of "pressurized" circuts, including the govener circut (in non-electronic trans cars) which will determine how much pressure is on the "back side" of the valve to assist the spring pressure - once you reach a certian throtle angle/speed the "front side" of the valve will have more pressure then the "back side" which will cause the fluid to transfer to the next circut, usually with an accumulator in line to promote more slippage between the clutches. when you're using type F fluid, the clutches will tend to grab faster as they have no friction modifiers (reducers) it will not promote slippage then fast grabbing. If you're using Dex III/Merc V fluid you'll get the promoted slippage and smoother clutch engagement making the shifts "softer" or "less noticable" 93CutlassSupreme Do you know how to spell FORD, it's not spelled with a PH. Anyhow, yes, I know that some *FORD* transmissions use Dex III now - they switched to using it because it was/is quickly becoming the standard, and because of it's availability it's become less expensive. If you look at the newer transmissions however, they are all using a synthetic ATF with even more modifiers in it. --Dave. If you want firmer shifts do it the right way. A bottle of something that shouldn't be ther cannot be good. I know people have done it for years but the have poured STP in oil for years too. You won't see me doing either any time soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heza Posted October 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 I just droped the pan and changed the filter and added Type-F fluid.I haven't noticed any real differences yet, I'm sure I need another flush to get all the Dexron out. yes... biff85ta...what is the right way to get firmer shifts on a 4t60/e? the b&m shift enhancer is a piece of shit that doesnt work. rebuilding the transmission to add the Transgo shift enhancer kit is not really feasible either. if adding type f fluid helps and doesnt promote anymore harm than dexron does, but has the potential from tightening the shifts...what the hell is wrong with that. on that sense since im somewhat annoyed with your post about "doing it the right way"...what is the right way then? oh...also...5.0 TPI...not a fast motor. true Chevy followers even admit that the 305 was a wasted effort. dont talk unless you know what the fuck you are talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpse_97 Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 I just droped the pan and changed the filter and added Type-F fluid.I haven't noticed any real differences yet, I'm sure I need another flush to get all the Dexron out. yes... biff85ta...what is the right way to get firmer shifts on a 4t60/e? the b&m shift enhancer is a piece of shit that doesnt work. rebuilding the transmission to add the Transgo shift enhancer kit is not really feasible either. if adding type f fluid helps and doesnt promote anymore harm than dexron does, but has the potential from tightening the shifts...what the hell is wrong with that. on that sense since im somewhat annoyed with your post about "doing it the right way"...what is the right way then? oh...also...5.0 TPI...not a fast motor. true Chevy followers even admit that the 305 was a wasted effort. dont talk unless you know what the fuck you are talking about. well said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biff85ta Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 I just droped the pan and changed the filter and added Type-F fluid.I haven't noticed any real differences yet, I'm sure I need another flush to get all the Dexron out. yes... biff85ta...what is the right way to get firmer shifts on a 4t60/e? the b&m shift enhancer is a piece of shit that doesnt work. rebuilding the transmission to add the Transgo shift enhancer kit is not really feasible either. if adding type f fluid helps and doesnt promote anymore harm than dexron does, but has the potential from tightening the shifts...what the hell is wrong with that. on that sense since im somewhat annoyed with your post about "doing it the right way"...what is the right way then? oh...also...5.0 TPI...not a fast motor. true Chevy followers even admit that the 305 was a wasted effort. dont talk unless you know what the fuck you are talking about. Compared to the w I have it sure a shit is fast. You have a family car. It was never intended to be used as a sports car. i have worked on damn near every type of car in existance and I now my car is not the fastest but it will sure smoke you. Before you accuse someone of not knowing what the are talking about make sure they don't. if you think a bottle of something is fine then do it but please don't bitch when you are buying the new tranny asshole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93CutlassSupreme Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 have you actually driven a 305? TPI 305's put out some nice performance numbers considering what it was. ever drive a late 305, before it was discontinued? around town it's a good motor. up until 40 they're not bad, but they do loose most their power after that i'd still take a 305 Chevy over a 4.6 SOHC Ford anyday however.....that piece of shit is weak at ANY speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heza Posted October 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 I just droped the pan and changed the filter and added Type-F fluid.I haven't noticed any real differences yet, I'm sure I need another flush to get all the Dexron out. yes... biff85ta...what is the right way to get firmer shifts on a 4t60/e? the b&m shift enhancer is a piece of shit that doesnt work. rebuilding the transmission to add the Transgo shift enhancer kit is not really feasible either. if adding type f fluid helps and doesnt promote anymore harm than dexron does, but has the potential from tightening the shifts...what the hell is wrong with that. on that sense since im somewhat annoyed with your post about "doing it the right way"...what is the right way then? oh...also...5.0 TPI...not a fast motor. true Chevy followers even admit that the 305 was a wasted effort. dont talk unless you know what the fuck you are talking about. Compared to the w I have it sure a shit is fast. You have a family car. It was never intended to be used as a sports car. i have worked on damn near every type of car in existance and I now my car is not the fastest but it will sure smoke you. Before you accuse someone of not knowing what the are talking about make sure they don't. if you think a bottle of something is fine then do it but please don't bitch when you are buying the new tranny asshole. funny...because both my roommate and i have beaten 305s with 3.4s. his ex had one and smoked several "super" 305s, and ive had my taste of 305d camaros/trans ams. 305s are shit motors. you never answered my question either. how do you do it the right way? i wont buy a new tranny...i will rebuild mine myself. thank you...i am mechanically inclined. now answer my question from however many posts ago, or fuck off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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