SmokesGTP Posted November 17, 2002 Report Share Posted November 17, 2002 Hi i'm new on here and just recently purchased my first car a 94' dark teal Grand Prix GTP. I have found out the hard way already this is a very expensive car to work on. Anyway, When i got the car it had a very mushy brake pedal and almost not stopping until the pedal was pressed almost all the way to the floor plus it was making the screeching highly annoying sound of the pads on the warning indicators. So I replaced the pads in the front and the rears were fine. The rotors look great and the fluid is full and fine. The new pads improved things noticably but it just seems as if everytime I drive another car I remark on how good its brakes are just because they're so much better than mine. I still have mush for a brake pedal like most GM's but it just seems to stop too slowly and the pedal feel is awful. These cars have 4- wheel discs with dual piston calipers up front for christ sake! Whats the problem? Sorry for the long post I got carried away but any input would be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 17, 2002 Report Share Posted November 17, 2002 Check your brake booster hose. It's probably worn out and collapses when vacuum is applied to it. That's the mushy feeling your talking about. Send a private message to RedZMonte about his braided booster lines he sells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandPrix34 Posted November 17, 2002 Report Share Posted November 17, 2002 yeah, when i 1st bought this car i noticed that 2 and sure enough, i had 2 replace the booster...also, check the Recalls on that model cuz i think its covered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91GranSport Posted November 17, 2002 Report Share Posted November 17, 2002 I think the W-Body, at least the Gen1s, have poor braking performance. Some people have problems with their rotors warping prematurely but mine are still okay. Actually, I bought my '91 GS used about three years ago with 145,000km. Now it has 180,000km and I've never had to touch the brakes. All four rotors are still in really good shape and there is still a lot of meat left on all the pads. The pedal isn't that mushy although I wish they had a more powerful brake booster. The brakes don't stop this heavy beast fast enough even when you slam on the brakes real hard. I think they corrected the poor braking performance on the Gen2s from what I hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ismellrealbad Posted November 18, 2002 Report Share Posted November 18, 2002 My 91 GP's brakes were terrible. Every month it seemed i needed new pads on a certain wheel. Anything more than normal braking caused them to overheat so badly that id almost be floring them before they stopped the car. at one point they didnt stop it all. i faild to mention this to my friend who i let drive it and he drove it hard as hell. when we got to our destination i saw him drive right on by with the brake lights still on slowly and slowly coming to a stop. he turns around and comes back and tells me my brakes dont wont. well apparently as he went past me he was flooring them and the car wasnt stopping. i let the car sit we went inside and when i had to go home my brakes were normal again. I always had to push them at least halfway down for them to do anything and locking them was impossible on dry pavement unless i cut the wheel. my dad always blamed it on my driving, but i told him the car always needed new brakes when mom was driving it. My mom was the first and only other owner of the car. he ignored me every time i pointed that out :? plus i know how bad it is to always be nailing your brakes so i dont drive too fast on county roads and no other cars i drive have this problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ismellrealbad Posted November 18, 2002 Report Share Posted November 18, 2002 also this was an isolated incident but one time i was just sitting waiting at a light and i noticed my car was rolling forward. i knew my foot was on the brake so i just pressed harder thinking i was just being lazy and eased off it without knowing. well when i kept pressing the pedal hit the floor and the car was still rolling. The pressure on the pedal seemed no diferent than any other time. I got kinda scared after the light turned green cuz i was like how the fuck am i gunna get home so i slowly approached a turn that i could take at a certain speed should the brakes not work. i came to the turn hit the brakes and they were fine. this never happened again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91CuttyConv Posted November 18, 2002 Report Share Posted November 18, 2002 I don't mean to bring just more questions than answers.....but..... I have a 1991 Cutlass Convertible and have the same brake problems everyone else does. I was wondering if anyone knew an easy way to improve brake performance? I know you can convert to the newer set up but that is very involved and as far as I know no one has solved the parking brake problem. So basicly, are there better pads I could use? Better rotors? Better calipers? Basicly something that would fit right in without heavy modification. Thanks, Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 18, 2002 Report Share Posted November 18, 2002 The stock e-brake does work with the newer set-up. I have seen it with my own 2 eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STR Posted November 18, 2002 Report Share Posted November 18, 2002 I don't mean to bring just more questions than answers.....but..... I have a 1991 Cutlass Convertible and have the same brake problems everyone else does. I was wondering if anyone knew an easy way to improve brake performance? I know you can convert to the newer set up but that is very involved and as far as I know no one has solved the parking brake problem. So basicly, are there better pads I could use? Better rotors? Better calipers? Basicly something that would fit right in without heavy modification. Thanks, Jason What parking brake problem. The stock cables hook right up to the new parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ismellrealbad Posted November 18, 2002 Report Share Posted November 18, 2002 i think he either means the fact of how much our pump parking brakes suck or the "problem" of the fact you cant interchange the one-pump 94+ setups with our piece of shits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted November 18, 2002 Report Share Posted November 18, 2002 The vacuum hose going to the power brake booster commonly becomes collapsed on the 3.4 DOHC. Take a look at it and see if it's kinked or collapsed. Also, those of you with 88-93 cars may experience poor braking because the brake booster doesn't have enough power assist. 94+ cars have a larger booster and better power assist. As for the 94 rear brakes, I've also seen pics of the 88-93 cables hooked up, but the pics I saw had ZERO slack with even the cable on one side kinked at a 90-degree angle. It may work, but it looks unstable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokesGTP Posted November 18, 2002 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2002 Thanks for the input guys. This may sound stupid but where is this vaccum hose and booster located. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted November 18, 2002 Report Share Posted November 18, 2002 The hose is on the back of the plenum. It's down pretty low so you have to really peer back there. The brake booster is that big black metal thing on the firewall. You see that plastic reservoir that you put brake fluid in? That reservoir is attached to the top of a silver master cylinder. The master cylinder is attached to the vacuum booster. You should be able to see the vacuum hose (about 3/4" or 1" thick) connecting the booster to the plenum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZMonte Posted November 18, 2002 Report Share Posted November 18, 2002 The stock e-brake does work with the newer set-up. I have seen it with my own 2 eyes. and i did it with my own 2 hands! the e-brake works with the new calipers. As for the booster hose.. IT IS A BEAUTIFULL thing for the DOHC's. it goes from the master cyl to the back of the intake plennum in the middle near the middle plug wire. I would recomend getting the ss braided one over the stock one because the stock replacement will do the same thing as the one on there now eventually.. mine will not. RedZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91CuttyConv Posted November 18, 2002 Report Share Posted November 18, 2002 To clarify the problem I was talking about was that I thought the "pump to set" cables did not hook up to the newer calipers. Like Shawn said, it has been done but looked a bit unstable. However, if it works that well, I may look into doing the swap in the spring. Thanks for the info. Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91GranSport Posted November 19, 2002 Report Share Posted November 19, 2002 Since we mentioned brake boosters, is it possible to replace the '88-'93 brake booster with a '94+ brake booster to increase braking power? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted November 19, 2002 Report Share Posted November 19, 2002 Yes, it's possible and has been done. The 94+ booster is a good bit bigger but fits fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpse3200 Posted November 19, 2002 Report Share Posted November 19, 2002 Hi i'm new on here and just recently purchased my first car a 94' dark teal Grand Prix GTP. I have found out the hard way already this is a very expensive car to work on. Anyway, When i got the car it had a very mushy brake pedal and almost not stopping until the pedal was pressed almost all the way to the floor plus it was making the screeching highly annoying sound of the pads on the warning indicators. So I replaced the pads in the front and the rears were fine. The rotors look great and the fluid is full and fine. The new pads improved things noticably but it just seems as if everytime I drive another car I remark on how good its brakes are just because they're so much better than mine. I still have mush for a brake pedal like most GM's but it just seems to stop too slowly and the pedal feel is awful. These cars have 4- wheel discs with dual piston calipers up front for christ sake! Whats the problem? Sorry for the long post I got carried away but any input would be greatly appreciated. Bleed the brakes, that will get them back to normal. get quality DOT3 ABS approved fluid. Compatible DOT 4 if you wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpse3200 Posted November 19, 2002 Report Share Posted November 19, 2002 Also make sure you parking brake works fine to set the rear adjustment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokesGTP Posted November 19, 2002 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2002 Thanks for all the help guys. I checked the hose yesterday and had my dad step on the brake but i don't see any problem and it appears to be in good shape although I may just take it to the dealer and let them have a look. I'm also gonna bleed the brakes and change the fluid to see if i get any difference and maybe some better brake pads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1trucavalier Posted November 22, 2002 Report Share Posted November 22, 2002 my rear calipers were toast! replaced them with stockers $15 (ON SALE) left, right $65 then i find out you can swap in newer model flip up style ! that was in april now my right rear caliper is acting up WTF!!! GRRRRRRRR! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZMonte Posted November 22, 2002 Report Share Posted November 22, 2002 To clarify the problem I was talking about was that I thought the "pump to set" cables did not hook up to the newer calipers. Like Shawn said, it has been done but looked a bit unstable. However, if it works that well, I may look into doing the swap in the spring. Thanks for the info. Jason Mine works just fine. RedZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZMonte Posted November 22, 2002 Report Share Posted November 22, 2002 Thanks for all the help guys. I checked the hose yesterday and had my dad step on the brake but i don't see any problem and it appears to be in good shape although I may just take it to the dealer and let them have a look. I'm also gonna bleed the brakes and change the fluid to see if i get any difference and maybe some better brake pads. Reach back behind the plennum and feel the hose where it clamps onto the plennum. chances are its swallon and squishy. My 1995 oem one was horible.. my car stops 1000000000x better after just replacing the hose. nothing else changed other then the hose and the cars brakes went from scary to sweet. I do have the booster hoses in stock if your interested. http://www.mandsproduction.com/html/brakebooster.htm Shane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted November 22, 2002 Report Share Posted November 22, 2002 As for the 94 rear brakes, I've also seen pics of the 88-93 cables hooked up, but the pics I saw had ZERO slack with even the cable on one side kinked at a 90-degree angle. It may work, but it looks unstable. i've seen that pic and that's exactly why i've decided to go ahead and use '94 e-brake cables. joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPRACER Posted November 23, 2002 Report Share Posted November 23, 2002 I'm a little late posting to this topic, but I find that the brakes on my '95 are great performance wise, but high maintenance. I had an annoying pulsation in the rear, changed rotors, tried machining, everything, turned out to be the surface of the hub/bearing assembly was out of round, not the rotor. I replaced the hub and problem solved. I like to work on cars, hell I do it for a living, so it's easy for me, every month I completely dissasemble and clean/lubricate my brakes. I buy really cheap rotors and OE GM pads, Every couple of months I have to resurface the rotors, but I'm really picky and hate any type of brake pulsation. Just to compare and not to diss any Phord people, we had a guy trade in a 2000 mustclang at work, just the base model with the 3800. I did a complete brake job on it, 4 wheel discs with no abs. When I roadtested it I almost made myself sick, If you think the W-body is bad, don't ever get one of these. My GP can run circles around this thing 'specially in the city! Sorry to ramble, W-bodys have good brakes from 94+ just don't be afraid to get your hands dirty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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