Harleyman Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 You've seen the pics posted on the forum and now for the test drive results of the 1989 TGP. For those who want to run a CarFax Report the VIN is 1G5WP14V6KF319475. First, the weather conditions. It was damn cold in Idaho Falls, ID., today with a low of -10 F. I drove the car when it was a balmy 5 degrees. The car was running when I arrived at the dealership. I popped the hood first and looked at the engine. The engine was surprisingly clean, with just minor evidence of oil leakage from the seals. The interior hood liner was falling apart and shows evidence of past oil saturation or exhaust contamination. The engine idled fine and had no noticeable knocks. I walked around the outside of the car next. There is some clearcoat rubbing off the body, primarily around the rear fenders. There was evidence of very light repairs to the plastic effects on the passenger side. It lacks a valance panel. The tires looked good, but the gold wheels needed cleaning. For a 15-year-old car, the body is surprisingly good. On the interior, the front seats are worn excessively, but the rear buckets look much better (still with some wear). The dash is cracked in two places and they have a dopey-looking dash mat that covers the damage. The console lid is cracked and there is a small squarish hole in the driver's side door panel. I tested the electric windows and they worked just fine as did the door locks and radio. It has a cassette player, but I didn't have a tape to test it. The passenger electric seat controls appear to work fine; the driver's side seat motors work (I could hear them) but the lumbar support and other functions have some problems. Now for the ride. Immediately I noticed the anti-lock brake light was on. I didn't notice that the HUD was working (I don't think it did). I drove to the first traffic light and had to wait; the car died. It restarted just fine. There was a lot of noise in the front end while I drove over bumps. Bad struts or shocks for sure! The brakes seemed a little weak (even for a TGP). The car had surprisingly good pickup under acceleration and throttle response was excellent. When I brought the car back to the dealership and parked it, I noticed the idle was a little sporadic. This could be a bad crossover and O2 sensor problem. I drove the car only a short distance and only 35 mph and less. Overall assessment is this car needs a real TGP lover who doesn't mind spending some money on a new crossover, brakes, struts/shocks, and interior parts. From a 1-10 scale (10 being a museum-quality car and 1 being a car that doesn't run and is a POS), I would rate this car a 5/6. The dealership is asking $1,500, but I'm sure would take less. The salesman's name was Martin Cruz at (208) 522-9800. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgpguy21 Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 thanks alot for the info harleyman. i called the guy today and he said he wouldnt take less than $1,500. does anyone know how much front shocks or struts cost?? im sure that when i take the car out for a test drive and name off the problems , maybe i can talk him down a little bit.. but still 1500 for a car with 86,000 miles thats still pretty good. So it looks like the wife and i are taking a trip to Idaho for another TGP!!!! yeeeehaaaaa... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 Strut options are limited. I think there are KYB's avail. You need a special tool to change them. Its usually available to borrow from the parts store. Not a huge deal. If it has 86k on it then its probably worth the $1500 if it just needs some fixing up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 Oh, that car. I just went and looked at the pics. I seems rough inside for 89k. The idling issue could be the battery was dead/disconnected and it hasn't relearned yet. Still may be worth it if the body is nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted January 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 When I asked how many miles the car had, the owner's exact words were "It shows 89,000, but we haven't got it certified." I can almost guarantee it has logged well over 100K miles based on the condition of the interior. I'd guess (and it's just a guess) the car probably has logged around 130K miles. When you've been around vintage and veteran cars your whole life, you kind of can tell. I would try to talk them down from $1,500. When I enquired about the car clear back in August or September, the owner said someone had bought the car and returned it because it ran poorly. He said they replaced some sensors. I was actually impressed that it ran well today (despite a stall at an intersection). I believe the dealer is going to lose some money on this car considering he tuned up the motor and has owned it for several months. He has come down from $1,695 in August/September. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supreme_style21 Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 Is the title clear? Well I guess it is odometer exempt anyway because of the age (unless that's just in MN here). If you can figure out whether or not the milage is true, you've got a good foot in the door. If the milage proves to be wrong and the correct milage is unknown, the car, market-wise, is close to worthless. When I was attempting to sell my '89, nobody wanted it because of the fact the odometer had been changed a few times and the correct milage was not known. But if the milage is incorrect, no way is it worth 1500.. the dealer probably knows that.. some hardball outta pick up that car inexpensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted January 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 Agreed. If it were me interested in buying the car, I would pay for a CarFax report as a minimum. I'd probably go further and pay a mechanic to do a 60-point check on the car, take his report to the dealership, and negotiate from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgpguy21 Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 well well guess what guys!!! Turns out the car was sold at an auto auction on 12/12/02. with guess what 95,066 miles!!! so what do you guys think i should do??? id still like to get the car but dont know what to do. from the auction it went to one other dealr then to this dealer. any ideas would be much appreciated. what does it mean when it says exempt from odometer reporting?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supreme_style21 Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 well well guess what guys!!! Turns out the car was sold at an auto auction on 12/12/02. with guess what 95,066 miles!!! so what do you guys think i should do??? id still like to get the car but dont know what to do. from the auction it went to one other dealr then to this dealer. any ideas would be much appreciated. what does it mean when it says exempt from odometer reporting?? Cars 10 years and older are exempt from odometer reporting.. so when someone transfers a title to another person, no odometer reading needs to be taken.. which is kinda bad, because you'll never be able to see the true reading. My guess is that once the first dealer bought it, he saw the odometer and/or mechanical problems and pawned it off to another dealership. If you want the car, print off that Carfax and march right into the dealership with it. Show him the milage is incorrect, and unless he can somehow prove the EXACT milage of the car, it isn't worth too much. I honestly wouldn't give more than 300-400 bucks.. especially with the condition in which it runs. If you're comfortable with a shady past, pick 'er up, save some money, and fix it up. Just realize, the odometer reading will follow you.. if you decide to sell later on down the road, you'll have a tough time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted January 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 I knew it!!!! My 130K mileage estimate is a little high, but it is safe to say it has over 100K miles on it. The previous owners should be bitch-slapped for treating the interior the way that they did. I'll tell you, the price should come way down. If the dealership was smart, they would negotiate with you knowing that they have a chance to get rid of a car they possessed for months. They are a very small used car dealer and could use the lot space for a pickup or mini-van (hot sellers in the ranch-land, Mormonville Idaho Falls). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgpguy21 Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 ok so lets assume that i want to keep this car until A) i total it completley f ^ mechanics of car and decide to part it out to you guys for parts you might need. do you guys think it would really be worth 1500 bucks if that was the case?? i dont want to go all the way up there and show him this car report i got and have him be like sorry i cant go under 1500 still. any ideas??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted January 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 TGPGUY21 I posted a personal message for you. Read it! I'll help you in any way I can (short of buying the car myself). I think you're in a good position to dicker on the price considering the information you've armed yourself with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supreme_style21 Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 ok so lets assume that i want to keep this car until A) i total it completley f ^ mechanics of car and decide to part it out to you guys for parts you might need. do you guys think it would really be worth 1500 bucks if that was the case?? i dont want to go all the way up there and show him this car report i got and have him be like sorry i cant go under 1500 still. any ideas??? No way is it still worth $1500. You won't make any progress over the phone either.. You'll have to step foot into his office to make any progress. Who knows how many miles it has. It could have 100,000 miles... it could have 250,000 miles. Ready to spend $1500 for a car with 250,000 miles? I'm willing to bet he knows the mileage problem.. and when you tell him that you know too, his game will be over. I don't trust most dealers. Figure out what YOU are willing to pay, knowing the shady history, and go from there. Maybe you choose $500.. go in there and offer NO more than that.. and don't let him talk you into any more than what you originally said you'd spend. Don't let your emotions get the best of you either. I catch myself doing that all the time.. Don't start dreaming about the potential of the car. Don't start dreaming of riding off into the country on some warm summer night.. Sounds dumb, but a lot of people do that.. and it leads to bending your original and final offer into something more than what its really worth. But lord no... don't pay the $1500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z24 turbo 93 Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 i would think the car is worth more than 300 dollars?? i would atleast offer 1000 for it, the car runs and the body is in good shape. Basically you are saying that any car over 10 yrs old is worth 300 dollars because they don't continue to count miles??!! That sounds pretty stupid to me. The shocks and struts prolly need to be changed whether it has 90,000 miles on it or 250,000 miles on it. I am sure the car has just as many problems as every other tgp. And if he is serious about keeping the car for a very long time i would think he would rebuild the motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkorinko Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 Offer between 500-650, i mean how many turbo charged cars that are as rare as the TGP can u find for that cheap???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 I am with everyone here, make a real low offer and go from there! But FIRST quote to him the stalling is well known all over the internet and with 3,000 TGP owners (I have talked to that many since 1996!) proving the crossover as the main problem, and the dealer now wants over $1,500 plus installation for their pipe (made the same cheap way). Then quote the ABS unit as a typical problem with these cars (actually the accumulator but he is a salesman and wants you to buy a car with the wrong odometer reading so who needs to be honest back!) and the cost of that is $3,200, plus installation! Then quote the banging in the front as the struts and/or ball joints, another $400 or more. Then the leather seats being well beyond normal wear for this year car, and the paint being faded and pealing. Let him have with both guns, he is surely not there to make friends and who cares if you hurt his feelings, you won’t and he would do what ever to sell a car and make a buck, so do whatever to save a buck and after you tell him how much it is going to cost to fix it, see what he says then!! I have done this same approach to the last 3 TGPs/TSTE I bought from dealers, shock them with the prices and they almost beg you to buy it! Whatever price you pay just make sure you are ready to resolve those known problems and a few hidden you have not found out yet, though most are commonly known and talked about here! Good luck! Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supreme_style21 Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 i would think the car is worth more than 300 dollars?? i would atleast offer 1000 for it, the car runs and the body is in good shape. Basically you are saying that any car over 10 yrs old is worth 300 dollars because they don't continue to count miles??!! That sounds pretty stupid to me. The shocks and struts prolly need to be changed whether it has 90,000 miles on it or 250,000 miles on it. I am sure the car has just as many problems as every other tgp. And if he is serious about keeping the car for a very long time i would think he would rebuild the motor. I'm not saying its WORTH 300.. I'm saying there is no way in hell that MYSELF would ever pay anything like the grand you'd pay. I would never buy something with not knowing even an ESTIMATE of how many miles are on that. It is completely up to him what he wants to pay and what his plans are for it. It has a different value in each person's eyes.. In mine, no matter the rarity, its close to worthless.. but that is just MY opinion, not a guide as to what everything is worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted January 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 Jeff, I think you have the most logical approach to the dilemma. Since I drove the car myself, I can tell everyone it's worth more than $300. We all agree it ain't worth the $1,500 they want for it. Somewhere in the middle is $900. I wouldn't offer them that much though, but it may be a number on the high end of where you'll end up in the negotiations. The bottom line is this: someone who bought the car at auction or after has rolled the odometer, which is unethical and illegal even in good, ol' Idaho. I suspect when TGPGUY21 lets them know of what the CarFax report says and the costs that Jeff has pointed out that are needed for repairs, they will want to dump this car like a hot Idaho spud! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 Jeff's approach sounds perfect...but make sure you start very low and have enough cash in your hand to jump on the deal if he agrees to say $400-$600. With the lower reading odometer the dealer would most likely jump for whatever you offer...especially with a CarFax in your hand. Plan to stay a night at a Hotel if he doesn't jump right away. Give him a contact number and don't seem at all like you are "dying" to get your hands on it! 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkorinko Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 Even though we all know u want it really bad, its a TGP!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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