rich_e777 Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 I`m determined to get this done this year and slowly running out of decent weather. My plans are for a complete suspension overhaul with upgrades as it goes back together. The vehicle will remain equipped with a leaf spring for now. For now I want to list the parts going on the car and clear up some compatibility questions about KYB and OEM components. A lot of the KYB parts came from a member here a few months ago and Im kind of disappointed to not have seen or heard from him since, for such a large order over a long distance he could have easily ripped me off but didnt:thumbsup: Front Suspension currently is factory Convertible with poly bushings for the 34mm sway bar and a FTSB. Noticed an overall feeling of looseness coming from the upper parts of the struts and ended up rounding out the T50 on the mount bolt so going to have to deal with that so I can reuse the part with the studs if possible. My manual has this listed as a mount strut, also I might need to replace the part with the bearings in it, listed as an insulator. I would like to find some part numbers or location to find these two items but haven't dug into it yet. Putting new KYB struts, jounce bumpers, stiffer springs, new spring seats with lower insulators, new KYB rubber upper mounts, new dust shields, new ball joints and tierod (outers) ends, new rack and pinion with a 2.75 ratio(comes with inner tie rods iirc, correct me if wrong). About control arms, to me it makes little sense to replace the above mentioned and not the control arm bushings and ball joint bushing, would it be easier to just get a new C-arm with the bushings already in, or reuse my current one and find a shop to press them in? also what bushings to use for the ball joint to control arm? Rear Suspension= currently coupe factory equipped with auxiliary dampers(face palm) these just suck, I really mean WTF was that retard in GM 25 years ago that decided these were good ideas? And then stopped fucking making them? So those are going and a thick rear sway bar from a `95 Monte Carlo is going on. I do not think I need to swap spindles at the rear to mount this, the sedans in the junkyards have the same as mine but have sway bars instead of aux. dampers. Also have an enormous RTSB that is adjustable thanks to "Venomous Vert" from here, and a set of solid trailing arms by Dorman. Also have new KYB struts and mounts for the rear, the mentioned MC sway bar with poly outer bushings and new inner sway bar brace mounts(listed as sway bar repair kit at autozone) the mentioned RTSB and trailing arms. I think the only other thing for the rear would be new poly bushings for the lateral links unless they make some solid or tubular ones I don't know or forgot about. Someone used some Impy links from a Police Impala ones I think but they were also running coil- overs, Im not, yet. Will also be replacing brake rotors and pads. Might upgrade the rotors while Im at it. If that then both front and rear spindles need to changed right? I will update as time and knowledge progress and any suggestions, advice and humorous trolling always appreciated. I will get part numbers for everything I currently have going on the car that is aftermarket for anyone looking into upgrading factory suspension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l67ss Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Got some work ahead of ya, dont ya? sounds like youre doing everything. Lol Btw gen 2 lateral links are bolt-on even with the leaf. You gotta go coilovers if you wanna run gen 2 spindles and brakes in the rear, which i highly recomend. I`m determined to get this done this year and slowly running out of decent weather. My plans are for a complete suspension overhaul with upgrades as it goes back together. The vehicle will remain equipped with a leaf spring for now. For now I want to list the parts going on the car and clear up some compatibility questions about KYB and OEM components. A lot of the KYB parts came from a member here a few months ago and Im kind of disappointed to not have seen or heard from him since, for such a large order over a long distance he could have easily ripped me off but didnt:thumbsup: Front Suspension currently is factory Convertible with poly bushings for the 34mm sway bar and a FTSB. Noticed an overall feeling of looseness coming from the upper parts of the struts and ended up rounding out the T50 on the mount bolt so going to have to deal with that so I can reuse the part with the studs if possible. My manual has this listed as a mount strut, also I might need to replace the part with the bearings in it, listed as an insulator. I would like to find some part numbers or location to find these two items but haven't dug into it yet. Putting new KYB struts, jounce bumpers, stiffer springs, new spring seats with lower insulators, new KYB rubber upper mounts, new dust shields, new ball joints and tierod (outers) ends, new rack and pinion with a 2.75 ratio(comes with inner tie rods iirc, correct me if wrong). About control arms, to me it makes little sense to replace the above mentioned and not the control arm bushings and ball joint bushing, would it be easier to just get a new C-arm with the bushings already in, or reuse my current one and find a shop to press them in? also what bushings to use for the ball joint to control arm? Rear Suspension= currently coupe factory equipped with auxiliary dampers(face palm) these just suck, I really mean WTF was that retard in GM 25 years ago that decided these were good ideas? And then stopped fucking making them? So those are going and a thick rear sway bar from a `95 Monte Carlo is going on. I do not think I need to swap spindles at the rear to mount this, the sedans in the junkyards have the same as mine but have sway bars instead of aux. dampers. Also have an enormous RTSB that is adjustable thanks to "Venomous Vert" from here, and a set of solid trailing arms by Dorman. Also have new KYB struts and mounts for the rear, the mentioned MC sway bar with poly outer bushings and new inner sway bar brace mounts(listed as sway bar repair kit at autozone) the mentioned RTSB and trailing arms. I think the only other thing for the rear would be new poly bushings for the lateral links unless they make some solid or tubular ones I don't know or forgot about. Someone used some Impy links from a Police Impala ones I think but they were also running coil- overs, Im not, yet. Will also be replacing brake rotors and pads. Might upgrade the rotors while Im at it. If that then both front and rear spindles need to changed right? I will update as time and knowledge progress and any suggestions, advice and humorous trolling always appreciated. I will get part numbers for everything I currently have going on the car that is aftermarket for anyone looking into upgrading factory suspension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l67ss Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 On the a-arms, i prefer to start fresh but pressing in new bushings is more than acceptiple if done correctly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_e777 Posted October 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Its an on going process, got a lot of plans in the works for it on a limited budget. Its still got most of the factory parts on it. Good to know about the gen2 links:thumbsup:(both sides of my rears might be bent in the same places) I think I might need to take a Gen 2 on a test drive to see how different the coil overs are vs my leaf spring are(CarMax let me take a corvette so a grand prix shouldn`t be a problem). I never really thought I had a performance issue there other than the basic wear and tear setting in. Now if has a noticeable effect on understeer I might be sold on conversion but over the years I`ve sort of figured out how to hit the sweet spots in the turns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_mezz Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Subscribed! I just did a lot of this same stuff to my car...Almost done with it but looking forward to seeing your build! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 And I have an entire gen 2 suspension available depending on what you are after Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 ok, two questions, What are your goals for this suspension build, and how much do you have to spend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_e777 Posted October 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) And I have an entire gen 2 suspension available depending on what you are after Already have most of what I need but thanks. Wait what about the insulators with the bearings, are they the same between the generations? Edited October 29, 2013 by rich_e777 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_e777 Posted October 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 ok, two questions, What are your goals for this suspension build, and how much do you have to spend? Goals are to fix what has worn out/ wearing out and upgrade to a stiffer more aggressive suspension, take away some of the body roll and reduce the understeer, and have some new pretty parts. Going to paint a few things as well. Over all goals for the car itself is to have it driving around in 20?? willing the current PTB don't destroy the country. That's for another forum and another alias:D. I`ve already got about $500 in parts and a couple hundred more for the odds and ends and for tool rental and alignment afterwards. Also for a car guy of my age its not a bad car to have, growing up my folks had a white sedan Cutlass international and its sort of modern but not too modern to be complicated. Get that nostalgia kind of feeling with the late 80`s to late 90`s GM cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l67ss Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 If the rack has any wear in it you should check into a 98+ regal rack. Its bolt-in and has a 13.2:1 ratio, REALLY responsive Goals are to fix what has worn out/ wearing out and upgrade to a stiffer more aggressive suspension, take away some of the body roll and reduce the understeer, and have some new pretty parts. Going to paint a few things as well. Over all goals for the car itself is to have it driving around in 20?? willing the current PTB don't destroy the country. That's for another forum and another alias:D. I`ve already got about $500 in parts and a couple hundred more for the odds and ends and for tool rental and alignment afterwards. Also for a car guy of my age its not a bad car to have, growing up my folks had a white sedan Cutlass international and its sort of modern but not too modern to be complicated. Get that nostalgia kind of feeling with the late 80`s to late 90`s GM cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_e777 Posted October 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 If the rack has any wear in it you should check into a 98+ regal rack. Its bolt-in and has a 13.2:1 ratio, REALLY responsive First thing that came to mind [video=youtube;0TWPE7e8mOI] If I did have to replace it I thought to go with the convertible one but I`ll keep that one in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l67ss Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 I love mine make sure you dont get one from a 97 regal, theyre gen 1 mag steer so therefor horrible to steer. Also 2000-05 montes have the same rack as a 98+ regal First thing that came to mind [video=youtube;0TWPE7e8mOI] If I did have to replace it I thought to go with the convertible one but I`ll keep that one in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_e777 Posted May 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 Sourcing a few last parts, stacked a few more bills and now I'm waiting for mid swim season when all of my customers pools are opened for some time off to do this. Also will be in the market for a decent shop/work truck as a DD and can finally retire the Cutlass to a more appropriate project car. One of my customers is also a very big car guy with the big $$$ to spend on all original Mopars(guys got like 8-9 beautiful classic muscle cars and an actual all original SURVIVING street sleeper Chevelle and a Dodge Demon with one of the first superchargers:drool:) I've decided the goals for this car are to remain as close to factory as possible while adding a few options available that fit(CS Vert FTSB, custom RTSB, Z34 F and R sway bars etc). Anything that the convertible/Z34 had that was a better option I want to put on this car and then keep it clean to survive years of enjoyment. Powerplant will remain a 3100/ but in the future will be building it up to explore what performance gains can be had at a reasonable amount of parts/labor for a decent streetable N/A engine. I have considered a manual swap, and the guy that installed a Hurst style shift kit into his Cutlass re-enforces the want:D(another time, another thread) No coil over conversion on this one, Ive sort of developed a thing for a red or black 1st gen GP with the B4U cladding that perhaps one day I'd like to build and I'll do the popular conversions on that one. Anyways I'm looking for the upper spring isolators for the front, also curious if I would need to be replacing the part that has the threaded studs you secure the FTSB or cover plates to. Manual lists them as strut mounts but auto parts stores refer to the rubber bushings as mounts. I will be replacing brake system components as needed during this particular job as well and might throw on some new Vert rotors while I'm at it. IIRC those are the only difference between coupe and convertible brakes. I could have sworn there were a few other parts related questions I had when I started this particular post but cannot recall them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_mezz Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 I'm not sure about this but I think the verts and coupes had the same brakes, the differences were more year specific. The best factory upgrade is the 'big brakes upgrade' from the 95 and up cutlass (11" rotors). I know a little about this because I went the opposite way on my car (96 to 93 brakes). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jman093 Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 I've decided the goals for this car are to remain as close to factory as possible while adding a few options available that fit(CS Vert FTSB, custom RTSB, Z34 F and R sway bars etc). Anything that the convertible/Z34 had that was a better option I want to put on this car and then keep it clean to survive years of enjoyment. Powerplant will remain a 3100/ but in the future will be building it up to explore what performance gains can be had at a reasonable amount of parts/labor for a decent streetable N/A engine. The large factory rear sway bar is the 95 Z34 bar. One year only. 7/8in. Make sure to get the links from the yard with it. For the outer bushings you can get aftermarket poly pieces, but you cannot get inner links anymore. The big front bar is a 36mm bar. It came on any FE3 car, not just Z34s. Very common, especially on Grand Prixs. You can get all four bushings in aftermarket poly. Anyways I'm looking for the upper spring isolators for the front, also curious if I would need to be replacing the part that has the threaded studs you secure the FTSB or cover plates to. Manual lists them as strut mounts but auto parts stores refer to the rubber bushings as mounts. If the isolator(s) are even still available you can just replace that. The other thing that occasionally goes bad is the bearing. If there's a popping turning the wheel at a stop, it's probably this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l67ss Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 The large factory rear sway bar is the 95 Z34 bar. One year only. 7/8in. Make sure to get the links from the yard with it. For the outer bushings you can get aftermarket poly pieces, but you cannot get inner links anymore. The big front bar is a 36mm bar. It came on any FE3 car, not just Z34s. Very common, especially on Grand Prixs. You can get all four bushings in aftermarket poly. Been tryin to fig out which cars got the 36mm bar If the isolator(s) are even still available you can just replace that. The other thing that occasionally goes bad is the bearing. If there's a popping turning the wheel at a stop, it's probably this. ?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_e777 Posted May 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 The large factory rear sway bar is the 95 Z34 bar. One year only. 7/8in. Make sure to get the links from the yard with it. For the outer bushings you can get aftermarket poly pieces, but you cannot get inner links anymore. The big front bar is a 36mm bar. It came on any FE3 car, not just Z34s. Very common, especially on Grand Prixs. You can get all four bushings in aftermarket poly. If the isolator(s) are even still available you can just replace that. The other thing that occasionally goes bad is the bearing. If there's a popping turning the wheel at a stop, it's probably this. I have new KYB bearings, if my isolators are still in good shape I will just clean them up and reuse them but its always good to know where you can get new rubber parts. Ive already installed the front sway bar years ago with ES bushings, Big difference. Rear bar and all the brackets and mounts I have in the pile. I do want to change out the bushing on the inner mount of that rear bar as well but haven't gotten around to it yet. Been prepping the frame to mount brackets and the arm like parts. strut braces are still on the car from the initial drive I took after putting them on and they are going to be painted as well. Or powder coated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_e777 Posted May 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 I'm not sure about this but I think the verts and coupes had the same brakes, the differences were more year specific. The best factory upgrade is the 'big brakes upgrade' from the 95 and up cutlass (11" rotors). I know a little about this because I went the opposite way on my car (96 to 93 brakes).That's what I was thinking too. Im not in any need of more braking power but my current rotors are somewhat close to being needing to replace anyways. Those with new pads and a set of braided brake lines and those will be good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_e777 Posted July 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 (edited) Getting some things ready, some plans have changed though. Fronts are FE3 springs and rears are 200lb mains with 50lbs helpers all sand blasted and re done in red. The wheel wells and rocker panel area factory undercoating have always looked funky to me and I think I'm going to re-spray the underside of the car when everything bolted, screwed or strapped down gets removed. Progress is happening slowly and I'm not so good at remembering to update stuff and take pics. I also painted the rear sway bar in an alternating black and yellow striped pattern, not unlike an arresting hook found on naval carrier aircraft but it is in the storage compartment with the car. I think its cool and will take more pics later. Edited July 26, 2014 by rich_e777 I thnk I fixed the pic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_e777 Posted July 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Just a few more loose ends and this will be ready to happen. Still need to grab some C-arm to subframe bushings, rear sway bar repair kit for the inner mounts, a rear pair of 2Gen GTP links, and I need to come up with a isolator for the rear coil overs between the helper spring and KYB mount I think, I`ll take a few pics of the rear coil over assemblies and could some of you guys take a look and let me know if I missed something. I think I`ll use those RAT struts I got from Miko, they are significantly stiffer than the new KYB Excel-Gs. But a few more questions Is there a bushing/sleeve/insert on the C-arms for the ball joint? If so what size is it? For C-arm/ lat. link bushings that need to be pressed in. Is there a way to do this at home with hand tools or is a hydro-press needed? Do I need to swap rear knuckles/ spindles etc for the coil overs in the back? Anyone familiar with what seat the top of the front springs? Looks like something similar to the bottom spring seat but I haven't been able to find any part #. I thought there where a few more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPX Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 If the rack has any wear in it you should check into a 98+ regal rack. Its bolt-in and has a 13.2:1 ratio, REALLY responsive Is this really a direct bolt-in for a gen1? It doesn't really look like it according to Rockauto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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