Addicted To Boost Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Maybe I missed it, but is someone making control arms for our 1st gen W's? With poly bushings too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted February 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Theres a thread on 60*v6 about making tubular control arms with poly bushings.... But who knows if it will happen and if it even will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Yes, DOHCfeind over on 60degreev6 is working on them with a reputable company. No prices or dates have been set, however the guesstimate he made on price was in the $200 range if I'm not mistaken. About the stock bushings... They are different sizes! I do not have measurements, however I did swap mine in August. The forward and rearward bushing are different sizes, both in length and diameter. Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted February 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 yeah it was in the $200 range last time I heard. but that was a while ago. Maybe at work on friday Ill see if we have any instock and take measurements off them. Since well need two front and two rears. Hopefully they wont have to be custom made. Cut down on cost a tad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 ES makes bushings in damn near every size imaginable. I don't think getting the right size would be an issue. Worth noting is that the stock bushings not only have a steel sleeve going through the middle, but they are IN a steel sleeve and then pressed in to the control arms. The steel sleeve they are in is made to keep the bushings shape when its pressed in. Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted February 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Well yes, their poly bushings have these steel sleeves as well. Its a must. Well I found the dimensions of these bushings and just e-mailed them. Ill be waiting their response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 Well yes, their poly bushings have these steel sleeves as well. Its a must. Well I found the dimensions of these bushings and just e-mailed them. Ill be waiting their response. I know this thread is old as hell, but I'm still interested in these. Anyone have an update? Or did we abandon this idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olds W31 Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 Search..... http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/products.asp?cat=1478 GM is frugal. The same PN bushings (lower control arm) is used in the 1988 RWD Cutlass. That means that you can order the same poly lower bushings in what ever color to fit the RWD, and use them on the FWD. At least, that's how the interchange worked for my 1994. AC Delco Forward Bushing PN 45g11058 AC Delco Rear Bushing PN 45g11059 AC Delco PN interchange web site: http://198.208.187.182/internet/VehiclePartFits.jsp?part=45g11059&autosel=A&pageno=5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 Search..... http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/products.asp?cat=1478 GM is frugal. The same PN bushings (lower control arm) is used in the 1988 RWD Cutlass. That means that you can order the same poly lower bushings in what ever color to fit the RWD, and use them on the FWD. At least, that's how the interchange worked for my 1994. AC Delco Forward Bushing PN 45g11058 AC Delco Rear Bushing PN 45g11059 AC Delco PN interchange web site: http://198.208.187.182/internet/VehiclePartFits.jsp?part=45g11059&autosel=A&pageno=5 Sorry about that. So if I order the front bushings from the '88, they will work? Or do I need to order the rears from the '88 and install them in the front? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 FWIW, I know www.p-s-t.com sells poly urethane bushings for the 88 Cutlass Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olds W31 Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 FWIW, I know www.p-s-t.com sells poly urethane bushings for the 88 Cutlass Jamie PST sells individuals, as well. You need to order the lower control arm bushings, for the front lower control arms, for a RWD Cutlass (or any other "A" body). GM used the same bushings on the A body platform (Regal, Cutlass, Malibu) for the 78-88 run, for the front lower control arms, as they did for our W-body front lower control arms. The biggest challenge is that most vendors sell in sets, that is the uppers (which we don't need, Coil overs or McStruts), and the lowers. If you buy a set, then you have to decide what to do with the uppers. I suggested earlier eBaying them (other thread), as they tend to wear more than the lowers do because of load/stress etc, and so guys with RWD cars replace the uppers about 2-3 times as often as the lowers.... I would recommend P-S-T, or Del-a-lum (http://www.globalwest.net/1978-88_Chevelle_G-body_control_arm_bushings.htm). The Del-a-lums are pricey, but they work great! The warning about turbo cars does not apply, as they are concerned with the Delrin melting or binding on the upper control arm bushings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Bushings from PST and GlobalWest are a shitton more expensive than the ones by ES. $60 for the ES Bushings $100 for the PST Bushings $150 for the GlobalWest bushings. Am I missing something here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Search..... http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/products.asp?cat=1478 GM is frugal. The same PN bushings (lower control arm) is used in the 1988 RWD Cutlass. That means that you can order the same poly lower bushings in what ever color to fit the RWD, and use them on the FWD. At least, that's how the interchange worked for my 1994. AC Delco Forward Bushing PN 45g11058 AC Delco Rear Bushing PN 45g11059 AC Delco PN interchange web site: http://198.208.187.182/internet/VehiclePartFits.jsp?part=45g11059&autosel=A&pageno=5 Sorry about that. So if I order the front bushings from the '88, they will work? Or do I need to order the rears from the '88 and install them in the front? Looks like you want this set: http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/proddetail.asp?prod=3%2E3156 Obviously you will have several left over, but you may be able to sell them, or use them for other parts not known yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Bushings from PST and GlobalWest are a shitton more expensive than the ones by ES. $60 for the ES Bushings $100 for the PST Bushings $150 for the GlobalWest bushings. Am I missing something here? The term "you get what you pay for" comes to mind. Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Bushings from PST and GlobalWest are a shitton more expensive than the ones by ES. $60 for the ES Bushings $100 for the PST Bushings $150 for the GlobalWest bushings. Am I missing something here? The term "you get what you pay for" comes to mind. Jamie Yeah, but how complicated can you get with bushings? They're still polyurethane IIRC, and even if they're not, will it really matter? When you're going to pay 2.5 times as much for the GlobalWest bushings, I doubt they'll last you 2.5 times as long or give you 2.5 times the performance. That being said, I think I'll order those ES bushings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Now, just keep in mind, the old bushings will have to be pressed out, and the new one's will have to be pressed it. They will not simply just slip into place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Now, just keep in mind, the old bushings will have to be pressed out, and the new one's will have to be pressed it. They will not simply just slip into place. I knew there was a reason why I didn't buy them the first time. So how would one go about doing something like that? I was told the old ones need to be pressed out of the engine torque mount, but I took my dremel to the bushing and got it out, then sanded the poly bushings to make them fit. I have a feeling I might not be able to do the same with these. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 I took mine to a machine shop had old ones pressed out and new ones pressed in (rubber). I can't speak for the Global west ones.... But the PST ones will be graphite impregnated and the ES ones will not be. Graphite impregnated bushing do not require greasing.... you can grease them, but its not 100% necessary. Make sure if you do grease them you use a fully synthetic grease! Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Oh yeah... something else to keep in mind, I don't know if the RWD cutlass was like this or not, but our rearward and forward bushings are totally different sizes. So each arm requires 2 size bushings. Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schurkey Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 Bushings from PST and GlobalWest are a shitton more expensive than the ones by ES. $60 for the ES Bushings $100 for the PST Bushings $150 for the GlobalWest bushings. Am I missing something here? Since PST and Global West are--probably--sourcing their bushings from an established polyurethane bushing supplier such as Energy Suspension, yeah, it'd be crazy to pay their higher prices. Sort of like hydraulic lifters--there's about three companies that MAKE hydraulic lifters, and about three hundred that buy in bulk and re-package them in boxes with a different brand name and part number printed on the side. Re-boxing is a major issue with car parts; tons of companies SELL parts, very few MAKE the parts. Now, just keep in mind, the old bushings will have to be pressed out, and the new one's will have to be pressed it. They will not simply just slip into place. Not if those bushings are made like the bushings in pretty much all the older cars. (I haven't installed Poly bushings in a W body, but I've put plenty of them in Chevelles, Skylarks, and Novas. Next project = '77 Firebird T/A.) Polyurethane bushings are IDEAL for Do-It-Yourselfers as a weekend project BECAUSE they DO "simply slip into place". The "secret" is that you DO NOT press out the original steel shell, instead you heat the shell with a propane torch just hot enough that the original rubber bushing "poops" out (you'll understand when you see it) then you clean up the inside of the original shell with emery cloth or sandpaper; grease the new Poly bushing and steel inner sleeve, and slide the new bushing and sleeve into the original shell. No press needed; no special tools for supporting the control arm in the press needed; and pretty much everyone either already owns a propane torch, or can afford to buy one. As a side benefit, Poly bushings can be torqued with the suspension in any convenient position, rubber bushings must be torqued with the suspension at normal ride height. Having the suspension at normal ride height may interfere with tool clearance and so it makes for a more involved torquing procedure. I'll never install rubber bushings if I can buy Poly bushings for that application. The labor savings alone is worth switching to Poly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 Alright, I'll try the torch idea. On another note, I found these bushings for a LOT cheaper. $55.40 **shipped** http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000CN75XA/ref=ord_cart_shr?_encoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance hell yes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 Alright, I'll try the torch idea. On another note, I found these bushings for a LOT cheaper. $55.40 **shipped** http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000CN75XA/ref=ord_cart_shr?_encoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance hell yes... Wow, good price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 Alright, I'll try the torch idea. On another note, I found these bushings for a LOT cheaper. $55.40 **shipped** http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000CN75XA/ref=ord_cart_shr?_encoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance hell yes... Wow, good price. Yep, already ordered a set. Hopefully this will all work out well. Thanks for the tips Schurkey. Any more advice or tips you can give me when these things arrive? With my current setup, once I get these in there I should have a pretty damn good handling w-body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 I took mine to a machine shop had old ones pressed out and new ones pressed in (rubber). I can't speak for the Global west ones.... But the PST ones will be graphite impregnated and the ES ones will not be. Graphite impregnated bushing do not require greasing.... you can grease them, but its not 100% necessary. Make sure if you do grease them you use a fully synthetic grease! Jamie Not sure what you consider to be fully synthetic grease. Is lithium grease fully synthetic? That's what I used last time when i did the front sway bar bushings and it worked out pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schurkey Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 Thanks for the tips Schurkey. Any more advice or tips you can give me when these things arrive? Nope, not really. You already know to check all the suspension parts for wear--ball joints, tie rod ends, struts, etc. As for grease, Energy Suspension bushings should come with a small quantity of special (very sticky) grease. First Choice would be to buy additional ES grease from your favorite vendor. Second Choice would be to use the special grease on the ID of the bushing; and use generic grease on the outside. Synthetic or non-synthetic wouldn't be of concern to me; I'd want the stiffest, heaviest stuff I could find--which--right now, today, would be the Sta-Lube marine wheel bearing grease I bought for my boat trailer bearings. I have used chassis grease (Sta-Lube red stuff; packaged for Ford-Mercury vehicles and sold at NAPA and others--but why Fords need special grease is beyond me) on the bushings in my Olds Toronado; it's been fine for a couple of years but the car is hardly driven so realistically I can't comment on the long-term durability of chassis grease on Poly control arm bushings. Graphite impregnated or not, I would NEVER install Poly bushings without grease. UNLIKE rubber bushings, the Poly material is intended to be a bearing material; the inner sleeve is SUPPOSED to rotate inside the bushing. It only makes sense to lube a friction point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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