ns87 Posted September 10, 2006 Report Share Posted September 10, 2006 This car has officially kicked my ass and my wallet's. I wound up replacing for the right or wrong of it -Plugs -Wires -ICM -New Exaust front and back (stupidly brought it to shop without welder) -Fuel Pump AGAIN Apparently my pump was installed incorrectly 2 years ago according to my current mechanic. It was on a slight angle and that stressed it to burn out? Is this possible? My fuel filter on backwards didn't help. Either way, this car is my DD again after 2 long months!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) I am sorry, this must be the 5 millionth stalling thread but I searched and couldn't find anything exact 2) Within the past two years, this has been replaced: -TPS -All 6 fuel injectors -Fuel Pump -Fuel Filter (yesterday) -ECM Once the car warms up, it idle hunts, misses while accelerating in low rpms. At traffic lights 6/10 times it will stall unless I put in neutral and revv. Never stalls while driving at any speed. I am thinking to replace ICM or Coil Packs. But I can't do it myself. I will have a shop do it, so I'd like to figure out which to replace. O2 sensor maybe? Mine looks original. Would this have to do with certain things operating in open loop versus the closed loop? There are no check engines codes...and it still feels like a fuel related problem I had 2 years ago with the injectors. Could they have gone bad again? Just like my problems before, it is inconsistant with NO check engine codes . *edit* I am 100% it is not transmission related bc it does the same thing while in park or neutral. Thank you for reading Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1138 Posted September 10, 2006 Report Share Posted September 10, 2006 I'd wager dollars to donuts it's the ICM/coilpacks. Don't have a shop do it, it's fairly easy to do yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairdo12 Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 I am putting my money on the idle air control valve. I am feeling pretty confident about this too. I think if its the ICM or coil packs you would have problems at all rpms and while driving. Take the IAC out of the throttle body and and push the valve back in with your thumb. I had the same problems you described and once I replaced the IAC all was well. Also check the o-ring around the valve. You might also want to clean out the throttle body where the valve goes in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted September 11, 2006 Report Share Posted September 11, 2006 almost sounds like a vacuum leak. Have you checked for this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slade901 Posted September 12, 2006 Report Share Posted September 12, 2006 Like they said, it could be a vacuum leak. However, it could be the fuel pressure regulator leaking. While the engine is running, pull the vacuum line from the fuel pressure regulator and see if there is any traces of fuel and if so then the fuel pressure regulator needs replacement. You can try spraying some throttle body around the intake gaskets and see if there is any change in the idle and if the idle changes when you spray a certain area of the intake gaskets or manifold area then that could be where the leak is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ns87 Posted September 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2006 Damnit, well now my car runs crappy 24/7 instead of just after warming up. It stalls more in reverse than any other gear, but I'm still pretty confident this isn't transmission related as its crappy at idle in neutral/park too. Im going to try this stuff this weekend, in my school parking lot lol. Ok, heres my responses: GP1138: If none of the above work, then I will deff try the ICM/Coil packs....Want to try the cheapest alternatives first. Even if this stuff isn't broken, I'm sure it'll go sooner or later lol Slade901: Where be the fuel pressure regulator? Is the vac line at the same part I was describing to Brian P? I hope it isn't, I'm sick and tired of replacing things on the fuckin fuel system. Hairdo: Would the IAC not throw up a code? I've never messed around near the throttle body before. Easy to do? Wtf does the IAC look like? I shall search more on this as well. Brian P: Actually I did think about the vacuum leak. Theres a part...I need to get a pic of it, but its near where the airbox big tube attaches to the engine...(I only speak in technical langauge lol). Some asshole before me used this goopy stuff to keep the 3 vacuum lines in it, and they do pop out a little easily. I know one runs to the MAP sensor, and that popped out once. I did try fooling with them, plugging them with my finger etc. Nothing changed. BTW, my vac lines are all really hard, shiny plastic. Should they be like this or rubber? I had a bad mechanic 2 years ago that really fucked up the vac system. He must have broken something, after he took it apart my cruise/vents never worked again. I replaced the check valve and checked the routing/vac ball and everything. Anyone in NY wanna come help me fix my car?~~~ LOL I need a w-body expert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossman429 Posted September 13, 2006 Report Share Posted September 13, 2006 Couple ideas to chew on: 1. I think the others are on the right track with the IAC motor, if that is dirty or faulty it will cause a poor idle, and dying. Try pulling it out and cleaning it 2. could be a vacuum leak, but would have to be a very LARGE vacuum leak to cause a dying issue 3. It is showing many symptoms of an EGR valve sticking open. might also try cleaning that, as a new one is an expensive part to shotgun at the car in hopes of fixing. A shop with a scanner can monitor the EGR functions to tell if it is opening/closing correctly. Try these things in order, as they go from easiest to hardest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted September 13, 2006 Report Share Posted September 13, 2006 Damnit, well now my car runs crappy 24/7 instead of just after warming up. It stalls more in reverse than any other gear, but I'm still pretty confident this isn't transmission related as its crappy at idle in neutral/park too. Im going to try this stuff this weekend, in my school parking lot lol. Ok, heres my responses: GP1138: If none of the above work, then I will deff try the ICM/Coil packs....Want to try the cheapest alternatives first. Even if this stuff isn't broken, I'm sure it'll go sooner or later lol Slade901: Where be the fuel pressure regulator? Is the vac line at the same part I was describing to Brian P? I hope it isn't, I'm sick and tired of replacing things on the fuckin fuel system. Hairdo: Would the IAC not throw up a code? I've never messed around near the throttle body before. Easy to do? Wtf does the IAC look like? I shall search more on this as well. Brian P: Actually I did think about the vacuum leak. Theres a part...I need to get a pic of it, but its near where the airbox big tube attaches to the engine...(I only speak in technical langauge lol). Some asshole before me used this goopy stuff to keep the 3 vacuum lines in it, and they do pop out a little easily. I know one runs to the MAP sensor, and that popped out once. I did try fooling with them, plugging them with my finger etc. Nothing changed. BTW, my vac lines are all really hard, shiny plastic. Should they be like this or rubber? I had a bad mechanic 2 years ago that really fucked up the vac system. He must have broken something, after he took it apart my cruise/vents never worked again. I replaced the check valve and checked the routing/vac ball and everything. Anyone in NY wanna come help me fix my car?~~~ LOL I need a w-body expert What part of NY again? Tell ya what, I might be headed up there in a month or 2, if you're still having an issue I'll be happy to take a look at it. I've been around more 3.1 MPFI's than I really needed to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ns87 Posted September 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2006 Brian P: That would be awesome, I hope you have a new trans for the wonder 3400. Its in Oneonta...which is about hour and half southwest of Albany. If you're anywhere near there, I'd love to meet up. I know we have a few members up in the Albany area...keep me posted that would be sweet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairdo12 Posted September 13, 2006 Report Share Posted September 13, 2006 It never threw a check engine for me. And the performance of the motor got worse as the valve failed more. If you replace, try a jy one first... you can easily pocket one or pay 3-5 bucks for it. You will need to do an idle relearn after replacing this. Does it still run fine when you press the accelerator? Red arrow is the IAC Also take this plate off and clean the carbon out (Green arrow) might need a new gasket set for this ($5-7) Larger picture: http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y81/hairdo12/Engine013A.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted September 13, 2006 Report Share Posted September 13, 2006 Brian P: That would be awesome, I hope you have a new trans for the wonder 3400. Its in Oneonta...which is about hour and half southwest of Albany. If you're anywhere near there, I'd love to meet up. I know we have a few members up in the Albany area...keep me posted that would be sweet south of albany is easy. The tranny is already assembled and in, I want it running this week, and sometime eventually want to take it on a long drive. I'll let you know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ns87 Posted September 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2006 I know this sounds dumb, but what do I clean it with ? I decided I'll also do the top end cleaner Friday too. I hope I create a huge cloud of smoke~ Hairdo: Mine has been getting progressively worse. When I used to give it gas, it would perform fine. Now its just shit all the time. It also has backfired a few times in reverse...the closest jy is an hour away, so maybe I should just buy a new one if I can't clean it? My first paycheck is Friday, so of course naturally it will be completely used Brian P: Mapquest Oneonta, NY. We're not quite south of Albany. I'll deff drive to meet ya though sry its big, damn mapquest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossman429 Posted September 14, 2006 Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 Clean it with Carb and Choke cleaner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ns87 Posted September 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2006 Yaaaaaahoo, thanks bossman! Im more confident its the IAC bc if I accelerate really quickly, its perfect above like 1.5k RPM. After fast accelerations it idles nice for a bit then craps out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ns87 Posted September 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 I cleaned the IAC today and Seafoamed. The IAC was kinda dirty, but nothing spectacular. I think more and more its the Coilpacks as the miss has gotten more consistant (so has the stalling). My heatshield for my catalytic convertor fell off today. After WOT, my car idles nicely for about 10 seconds. I am also starting to think it might be a plugged Cat. When I undercoated, I took care not to spray the cat, but maybe things got in it anyway? Either way I don't have enough money to replace anything, so I'm borrowing my friends car for the week. I may ask my parents to help me out if it gets any worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ns87 Posted September 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 BTW, now it doesn't seem to start first try. WTF? and for the first 4 minutes it runs perfectly. RRRRRRRR sorry just venting lol. Coilpacks will be replaced Fri, and I will update Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ns87 Posted September 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Ok, the first coil pack on the right only had one cyl firing. I stupidly replaced it, and the new one does the same thing....so it's the ICM correct? Just to be clear, I removed the spark plug wire and watched for a spark. I dont remember the cyl number, but the left hand one on the furthest right coil pack does not fire. Just need a confirmation tonight since tomrrow I NEED to have this fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1990lumina Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 Buy the ICM and coipacks as one unit from a wrecker...I did that when working on a Park Avenue with similar symptoms....it was easier to put the wrecker's part in as a whole unit then it was to diagnose what part (coils or ICM) were bad....especially if you don't have much time to throw parts at it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moto_ty Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 i have a pontiac grand prix with a 3.4, my ICM went bad and stop firing on 2 cylindars i replaced the coil packs and still had the problem. i took the ICM off and you can get it tested at most auto part stores, DONT TRUST THEM!!! mine passed the test, but i went to the local junk yard and got one, stuck it on and have had no problems since Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1138 Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 I win! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ns87 Posted September 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 :-/ After all day today of replacing the ICM, it ran perfectly....for 10 minutes. In fact, I never saw it run so beautifuly. After the ten minutes were the worst I've ever seen my car run in its life. #6 spark plug wire is broken on the inside, I need to replace that. But it doesn't explain the terrible misfire and inability to idle. I also noticed that this black line (pointed in blue) would vibrate loudly after every time the car stalled or was started. My car also smells like pure gasoline (not leaking anywhere). Is that the EGR? Maybe the IAC is bad afterall? Fri, I will have access to a jy again and I will pocket an IAC. This is frustrating me. I can't afford a new car, and I've spent my past 2 weeks of paychecks on trying to fix this one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 Normally when your car smells like pure gas, it means its not getting burned in the cylinder. Hence a misfire. So get a brand new wire set. Dont just replace the one. And that one line I believe is a vaccum line, and if its broken this would explain why its not even able to idle correctly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ns87 Posted September 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 Take the IAC out of the throttle body and and push the valve back in with your thumb. I just read this again!!! That valve is supposed to move?!?!?! Mine was rock solid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 the IAC valve is suppose to move. It should move somewhat easily. When they get carbon depsoits from the EGR they get stuck. Just buy a new IAC, dont mess around trying to fix something that wont work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ns87 Posted September 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 Thanks Jay. I shall do that as soon as I get back to Poughkeepsie. Also another update... Old Coil Pack + Old ICM = No Spark on cyl 2 after warming up New Coil Pack + Old ICM = No Spark on cyl 2 after warming up Old Coil Pack + New ICM = No Spark on cyl 2 after warming up What controls the ICM? I don't think I need to put the new coil pack on the new icm as its the same problem as before. Not to mention my car takes about 4 starts after sitting a long while (fuel pressure regulator?) Thank you all! I'm sry this is so scrambled, but I'm posting as this shit is happening. *edit* So much is running through my head. I can rule out any gasket leaking bc it wouldn't have a terrible idle only after the first 5 minutes? The first five minutes are orgasmic for how good they are. I really am thinking ECM? Mine is a reman from 2 years ago. I want to figure out why one cyl doesn't fire before I try other things I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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