Canada Posted August 9, 2004 Report Share Posted August 9, 2004 Here is a good website that has a ton of shit on forced induction type things.....I like the power consumption charts for the S/Cs...... http://not2fast.wryday.com/turbo/maps/ Well..........it used to work anyways.......................damn it. I assume this works the same way with superchargers, but with turbocharges, a big single is more efficent when compared to two twins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitcor Posted August 9, 2004 Report Share Posted August 9, 2004 very true, TT setups are for even powerband distrubution the thing here is though is I dont bevliew a twin SC setup would do anything at all because unlike a turbo the RPM on the 2 SCs would be identical, considering identical housing volume I dont think you will gain further compression. However I could be wrong. In a TT setup turbo speed and pressure is controlled by the wastegates and the BOVs and in almost all inline TT setups the first turbo is smaller than the last. Idea being to make up for turbo lag and even out the powerband. Your not going to get this from an SC its on all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfewtrail Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 very true, TT setups are for even powerband distrubution the thing here is though is I dont bevliew a twin SC setup would do anything at all because unlike a turbo the RPM on the 2 SCs would be identical, considering identical housing volume I dont think you will gain further compression. However I could be wrong. I was thinking along the same lines about two M90's setup that way. I guess the first M90 would allow the second one to receive the air faster though(???), but then you have to deal with the heated air exiting the first sc being heated again upon being compressed a second time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gp90se Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 I dont think you can stack supercharges because the first will compress the air into the second which is stuck turing at the speed of the motor, so all the boost from the top charger will end up stuck there and prolly do more damage then good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Manticor, name one production car (US, Japan, Europe....where ever) that uses turbochargers that are sized differently. Also, take a look at the high boost cars........most switch to a big single or twins that are the same size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitcor Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 Manticor, name one production car (US, Japan, Europe....where ever) that uses turbochargers that are sized differently. Also, take a look at the high boost cars........most switch to a big single or twins that are the same size. all my posts here explain that twin SCs would be point less, even in the case of a twin model setup that mimicked a TT setup becase SCs are on all the time. TT is just to even out the powerband and elimnate turbo lag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 I don't see the benefit in having twin superchargers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90moddedtgp Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 even if the setup works think of the stress you are putting on the motor you are making the car less reliable save some money and do a tt setup it will sound much cooler and be more reliable plus in theory you wil gain more hp from also it would look cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henschman Posted August 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2004 yall are probly right... it would probably work, just not very well. I would probably be best off buying an m112 from a cobra or lightning or jag xkr and flipping it, welding up a custom manifold for it, and running it thru the fmic and then to a l36 mani. It is true that having 2 sc's would be pretty inefficient. I still think the concept would work, because the second sc is also pulling air as well as pushing it, and 2 pumps in a row pump twice as hard. BUT, it would be more efficient to use just one larger volume sc so there is much less power consumption from turning the pulley and less weight. It would cost more (m112s are a lil more expensive more like $300-$500, and i would have to buy a l36 manifold), but i still think it would be better than buying the zzp intercooler. It still involves a lot of custom work, but nothing i can't handle. Better a more expensive setup that works than a cheap setup that is a horrendous failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
god910 Posted August 13, 2004 Report Share Posted August 13, 2004 Manticor, name one production car (US, Japan, Europe....where ever) that uses turbochargers that are sized differently. Also, take a look at the high boost cars........most switch to a big single or twins that are the same size. Don't the 3Kgt's and RT/TT use twin staged (different sized) turbo's? One big to pick up the top-end, and one small for down low? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastSE2DR Posted August 14, 2004 Report Share Posted August 14, 2004 nope they are both the same size...the stock 9b turbos crap out before they even make it to redline i heard of an MR2 i believe that was supercharged low in the rpm range and then around 5k a turbo kicked in and the supercharger kicked where it would kinda die out anyway...the guy had all kinds of trouble gettin it to work right...it hardly ever did produce any reliable numbers...you have 4 options that are realistic in a wbody...twin turbo, single turbo, stock m90 sc with pulley, or a centrifugal supercharger from vortech etc...thats about all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henschman Posted August 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2004 the twin turbo '93 rx-7s used two different sized turbos in sequence with the smaller one boosting into the bigger one. Since the smaller one had a fast spool time, it would help spool up the big one. But its true that most people with this car or any other twin turbo that mod em usually go to a big single turbo. you have 4 options that are realistic in a wbody...twin turbo, single turbo, stock m90 sc with pulley, or a centrifugal supercharger from vortech etc...thats about all You forgot the m112! make that 5. I think the best car to get the m112 off would be a jaguar. I think they already mount it "flipped" on the engine with a pipe off the top that splits and runs boost to each bank of cylinders. Should be easy enough to mount on the l67... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henschman Posted August 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2004 the twin turbo '93 rx-7s used two different sized turbos in sequence with the smaller one boosting into the bigger one. Since the smaller one had a fast spool time, it would help spool up the big one. But its true that most people with this car or any other twin turbo that mod em usually go to a big single turbo. you have 4 options that are realistic in a wbody...twin turbo, single turbo, stock m90 sc with pulley, or a centrifugal supercharger from vortech etc...thats about all You forgot the m112! make that 5. I think the best car to get the m112 off would be a jaguar. I think they already mount it "flipped" on the engine (so i could use the stock bolt holes to mount it) with a pipe off the top that splits and runs boost to each bank of cylinders. Should be easy enough to mount on the l67... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastSE2DR Posted August 14, 2004 Report Share Posted August 14, 2004 go centrifugal or turbo if you want a lot more power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfewtrail Posted August 15, 2004 Report Share Posted August 15, 2004 nope they are both the same size...the stock 9b turbos crap out before they even make it to redline i heard of an MR2 i believe that was supercharged low in the rpm range and then around 5k a turbo kicked in and the supercharger kicked where it would kinda die out anyway...the guy had all kinds of trouble gettin it to work right...it hardly ever did produce any reliable numbers...you have 4 options that are realistic in a wbody...twin turbo, single turbo, stock m90 sc with pulley, or a centrifugal supercharger from vortech etc...thats about all I know of a car running a Volvo engine(4cyl) w/ both a supercharger(Eaton M60) and a turbocharger(I don't recall what turbo/size..it might be a GT-40). It's running 10's and making around 500hp+. The car has some type of management/device for switching airflow between the sc and turbo(I imagine he just has the sc being bypassed when it hits a certain speed/rpm). http://img19.exs.cx/img19/1653/opel1.jpg http://www.hilmersson-racing.com/start.asp?show=frame Go to the "English" tab unless you can read Swedish or whatever that is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
god910 Posted August 15, 2004 Report Share Posted August 15, 2004 Garret GT-40 turboEaton M62 compressor with an own system for control of air between the turbo and the compressor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfewtrail Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 Garret GT-40 turboEaton M62 compressor with an own system for control of air between the turbo and the compressor I was close...I thought it was an "m60" for some reason last night. Badass car either way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henschman Posted August 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 csc's cost WAY too much for what they are. A turbo would be a consideration though... Very cheap on ebay or scrapyard... I wonder how easy it is to mount one on the x-over pipe? I'm thinking about buyin some s&s headers as soon as i get the gtp and i could put the turbo on their xover pipe i guess. Or i could just get my friend to make me some custom headers. I'll have to check on prices. Do you know of anyone who made a custom turbo setup? If so, how hard was it and how much did it cost? And buying one of those kits for like 2 or 3 grand isnt an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitcor Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 putting the turbo on the x-over from S&S or TOG headers will have it so your only boosting from the right bank. Not good IMHO. Iv thought about using the S&S headers but that will only work on the rear. You will need custom headers for teh rear to come around and collect for the turbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henschman Posted August 25, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 hey, just the front bank of our engine has more displacement than a honda engine, and they do just fine with only 1.6L pushing a turbo. Isn't it pretty much standard on 3800 turbo kits to mount the turbo on the xover? I know that's how it is on the tgp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 It definately won't work if there sitting on top of each other. Side by side might be a completely different story though. I did that in paint, so excuse the fact it's not great looking, but I think you get the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henschman Posted September 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2004 so you're wanting me to buy 2 thunderbird m90s. I think i'd be better off with just one m112 mounted like that. Coo idea though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted September 12, 2004 Report Share Posted September 12, 2004 so you're wanting me to buy 2 thunderbird m90s. I think i'd be better off with just one m112 mounted like that. Coo idea though... Would look hella cool sittin in the engine bay, now wouldn't it!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henschman Posted September 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2004 dam right it would!! Wow, i can't believe this topic is at the top of this forum. I posted it so long ago and i'm not even considering twin sc's anymore. I'm gonna stick to puttin a cam, 1.75/1 rocker arms, 3.2" pulley, intake, headers, and exhaust on before i think about changin the sc out. Almost there, I already have the cam and rockers. I'm still keepin my eye out for a deal on an m112 though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted September 12, 2004 Report Share Posted September 12, 2004 I actually brought up the old thread. Kinda wondering if there was any update on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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