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Loss of Overdrive on interstate


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#1 Mstg007

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 12:25 AM

I was in a traffic jam for 30 mins today. After we got past the wreck, I went to accelerate and as I am driving around 70 MPH i see my TACH is around 3.5000 RPM. Usually, its around 2.5000 RPM. So I went off to a back road and put my transition into 3RD and was going about as fast. Thats how i was able to tell (overdrive) did not work.

Now, I dont know if this is a fluke, but hopefully it does not do it tomorrow, but if it does, what am I looking for to fix this?

 

1994 Cutlass supreme 3.4L with 150,000 miles.

 

Thanks for all the help and advice guys.



#2 digitaloutsider

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 01:03 AM

It's something with the PCM calibration on early 4T60E cars, IIRC. My '94 Bonneville SSE used to refuse to shift into overdrive when the transmission got hot. It's on purpose as far as I know.


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#3 Galaxie500XL

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 02:23 AM

I recently reposted an old posting about this very symptom...you're likely losing TCC lockup, because the TCC apply piston is sticking in the bore when hot. Unfortunately, a common problem with the T460.
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#4 Galaxie500XL

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 02:24 AM

http://www.w-body.co...o-tcc-when-hot/
galaxie500xl

1988 Camaro IROC-Z 5.7 TPI 5-speed

2011 Chevrolet Equinox LT

1994 LeBaron GTC Convertible

GONE to a new home... 1995 Cutlass DOHC Convertible, 3rd Quarter 2012 W-Body.com COTQ

1993 Buick Century station wagon...sold to our son, kept in the family since 2003


#5 Imp558

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 02:26 AM

Shouldn't 4th gear and TCC work out to be around or under 2K? This sounds like my old 4T60 that had no 4th or TCC, I thought you posted something a while back specific to this.

 

My solution was a bit more drastic than most would like.


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#6 Galaxie500XL

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 02:39 AM

My short term solution was to add a transmission cooler from a 3.8 Regal, which slowed down the heating, and meant most days I could drive to an from work before the problem hit... ...the long term solution was to have the transmission rebuilt, and even the rebuilder got it wrong on the first try, even though I correctly diagnosed the problem before leaving it with him.. ..in his defense, though, he went out of his way to make it right, and I doubt many people had ever walked into his shop knowing EXACTLY what was wrong with their transmission.

Edited by Galaxie500XL, 22 September 2017 - 02:45 AM.

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galaxie500xl

1988 Camaro IROC-Z 5.7 TPI 5-speed

2011 Chevrolet Equinox LT

1994 LeBaron GTC Convertible

GONE to a new home... 1995 Cutlass DOHC Convertible, 3rd Quarter 2012 W-Body.com COTQ

1993 Buick Century station wagon...sold to our son, kept in the family since 2003


#7 Mstg007

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 01:24 PM

Interesting. Thanks for sharing guys. The car is basically once a week driven to work on nice days. Yesterday was 95 Degrees and siting in the traffic does not help which explains the temperature for the TCC. So if this were to happen again in the future. The temp fix would be to pull over. Turn off the car and back on and there should be over drive again. (That's if I'm understanding it as best as I can.)


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#8 Imp558

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 02:35 PM

An easy mod would be the bar and plate cooler from a ford explorer, late nineties. That would probably carry you for quite a while if the object is to run cool.
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1984 Dodge Prospector

1968 Empi Imp on '67 Pan


#9 Galaxie500XL

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 11:19 PM

Interesting. Thanks for sharing guys. The car is basically once a week driven to work on nice days. Yesterday was 95 Degrees and siting in the traffic does not help which explains the temperature for the TCC. So if this were to happen again in the future. The temp fix would be to pull over. Turn off the car and back on and there should be over drive again. (That's if I'm understanding it as best as I can.)

You'd think so...but my experience was until the transmission temperature dramatically dropped, shutting down and restarting meant at best a minute or so of normal operation, then the problem repeats itself.
galaxie500xl

1988 Camaro IROC-Z 5.7 TPI 5-speed

2011 Chevrolet Equinox LT

1994 LeBaron GTC Convertible

GONE to a new home... 1995 Cutlass DOHC Convertible, 3rd Quarter 2012 W-Body.com COTQ

1993 Buick Century station wagon...sold to our son, kept in the family since 2003


#10 55trucker

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 12:42 AM

Interesting. Thanks for sharing guys. The car is basically once a week driven to work on nice days. Yesterday was 95 Degrees and siting in the traffic does not help which explains the temperature for the TCC. So if this were to happen again in the future. The temp fix would be to pull over. Turn off the car and back on and there should be over drive again. (That's if I'm understanding it as best as I can.)

 

I take it that you did not have the A/C running, even tho the DOHC cars have a trans cooler if the fan/s are not running when it's hot outside & you're not moving then you still won't get any airflow passing thru the cooler to aid the trans temps.


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#11 Schurkey

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 10:04 PM

WHY is the fluid getting that hot?  This ain't the first time a W-body has been driven in 95-degree temps.

 

SOMETHING is wrong.  We just haven't found out what...yet.

 

I would be looking at what has failed, before I slammed a bunch of add-on crap onto the cooler tubes.


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#12 Galaxie500XL

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Posted 24 September 2017 - 10:52 PM

It’s a fair question, but it depends on your definition of hot. Mine would fail at fluid temps above 175...which isn’t hot at all, considering normal coolant temperature on an LQ1 is a little above 200 or so.
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1988 Camaro IROC-Z 5.7 TPI 5-speed

2011 Chevrolet Equinox LT

1994 LeBaron GTC Convertible

GONE to a new home... 1995 Cutlass DOHC Convertible, 3rd Quarter 2012 W-Body.com COTQ

1993 Buick Century station wagon...sold to our son, kept in the family since 2003


#13 Mstg007

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 04:25 PM

Luckily I have not had the problem since. The engine temperature was in normal range. You are right, I did not have the A\C On.

 

I get what you are saying about the adding to the cooler lines, but as Schurkey said, What would cause that to get hot or hotter than normal?



#14 cutty collector

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 06:14 PM

galaxy is right on the money mine does the same thing I have to get into heavy traffic for it to fail. transmissions don't cool as fast as engines they used to teach us in the gm classrooms that the cooler is actually a heater for the trans in the winter time as the coolant in the radiator heats up much more quickly that a transmission does, with the exception of doing a brake torque where trans temps sky rocket in no time



#15 cutty collector

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 06:15 PM

I have been looking into a repair valve for this condition on my transmission it rides in a different portion of the bore that is not as badly worn. Sonax makes several kits



#16 Schurkey

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 06:29 PM

Mine would fail at fluid temps above 175...which isn’t hot at all, considering normal coolant temperature on an LQ1 is a little above 200 or so.

HOW do you know that the fluid temp was 175?

 

WHERE is the sensor?  In the pan, or in the cooler circuit?

 

they used to teach us in the gm classrooms that the cooler is actually a heater for the trans in the winter time as the coolant in the radiator heats up much more quickly that a transmission does

There are multiple ways to connect add-on trans coolers.

 

In a cool-to-cold climate, the add-on cooler would get the transmission fluid first, with the in-radiator cooler between the add-on cooler and the return port in the transmission.  This allows the in-rad "cooler" to warm the fluid as needed in cold weather.

 

I have been looking into a repair valve for this condition on my transmission it rides in a different portion of the bore that is not as badly worn. Sonax makes several kits

Which valve are we talking about?

 

Part number for this Sonax "Kit"?

 

I am aware that Sonax makes a heaping pile of repair parts for automatic transmissions.  They seem to be a-reputable company with clever "fixes" for OEM trans-design failures.


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#17 Imp558

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 06:47 PM

The 4XXX Transmissions all have a TFT sensor internal, when I take a reading it's via DLC with my scangauge. It's not ludicrous to think someone may have a dedicated TFT Gauge reading an inline sensor or with an IR thermometer somewhere but that's a really good point. It would be more thorough to know how and where the temp is measured. Good catch Schurkey.

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#18 Galaxie500XL

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 08:26 PM

My old Actron scantool read the internal sensor as part of the live data...it really wasn’t a problem.
galaxie500xl

1988 Camaro IROC-Z 5.7 TPI 5-speed

2011 Chevrolet Equinox LT

1994 LeBaron GTC Convertible

GONE to a new home... 1995 Cutlass DOHC Convertible, 3rd Quarter 2012 W-Body.com COTQ

1993 Buick Century station wagon...sold to our son, kept in the family since 2003


#19 Schurkey

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 06:45 PM

It's a problem if the sensor is faulty and giving incorrect readings.  I have a tough time believing that the trans can have fluid-temperature related problems while the sensor is showing "175 degrees".

 

It might be a problem if the sensor isn't reading the temp of the fluid in the pan.  The Old Wisdom about fluid temperature assumes that the temperature reading is from the pan, not the torque converter, or somewhere buried in the line-pressure circuit.


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#20 Mstg007

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 07:08 PM

Could I ask. where would the sensor be located and is it a pain in the but to replace?






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