ThunderBat Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 I realize I'm talkin (hopefully) so far into my future with this car that this is just pure fantasy...but does anyone have any info on what other engines will fit under the GP hood? (2nd Gen)...like say for instance, a Caddy NorthStar V8?...or even the small bore version from the Aurora?...I'm certainly planning on keeping this car for the long haul, but when the time comes around for an engine, I've never been the concours resto type of guy...I love custom stuff that makes a ride a one-off wonder...then I'll be happy to start taking it to shows and such...I realize the easiest upgrade would most likely be an L67 swap, but theres just nothin else out there that sounds like a V8!...I realize this subject has been done to death and I'm bein a little on the lazy side by not searching thru the archives...but the last I remember this subject being touched on was with my Lumina and the GP looks way more roomy in the engine bay. Didnt that G-force show car have an LS1 under the hood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THe_DeTAiL3R Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 I think I read that the Aurora engine is too wide to fit in a (1st gen) w-body.. I don't know about your car. The Northstar is better anyway.. My dream engine to stuff into my car would be the Corvette LT5- 5.7L DOHC 400hp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockgp Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 wasn't there a post on here not too long ago about a v-8 rwd 2nd gen gp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscoStudd Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 My dream engine to stuff into my car would be the Corvette LT5- 5.7L DOHC 400hp Remember about 7 or 8 years ago when Tim Allen had a LT5/6-Speed combo stuffed into his Impala SS? They had a bitch of a time shoehorning that motor into the Impala. I remember them having to do a ton of custom fab work to get it to set in the car just right. That sure was a bad ass ride when they finished with it though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBat Posted June 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 I thought the Aurora 4.0 and the NorthStar 4.6 were sister engines...the only real difference being bore and stroke and some electronic support systems. So wouldnt external dimensions be pretty much the same?...I remember hearing rumor quite some time ago that GM was going to offer the latest gen version of the SBC in the monte carlo...something about this version being even more compact than the LS1...of course with the rampant return to rear drive platforms of late, we may never see that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutlassdude96 Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 the 4.0 and 4.6 are the same engines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBat Posted June 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 I just did a little google-ing and it was the grand prix G8 concept that was packing the 350hp LS1 V8...it had an Aztek rear axle (you know what they say about family!) and VersaTrak all wheel drive (with 350 ponies I'd say thats a must)...or we could just stick with FWD to make things hairy when you get on the throttle hard!...(but I'll bet it would be fun at the track!) 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfewtrail Posted June 28, 2004 Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 My dream engine to stuff into my car would be the Corvette LT5- 5.7L DOHC 400hp Remember about 7 or 8 years ago when Tim Allen had a LT5/6-Speed combo stuffed into his Impala SS? They had a bitch of a time shoehorning that motor into the Impala. I remember them having to do a ton of custom fab work to get it to set in the car just right. That sure was a bad ass ride when they finished with it though... http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/history/press/1996/11071996.html 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscoStudd Posted June 28, 2004 Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/history/press/1996/11071996.html 8)Thanks for the refresher. I thought the "Binford 6100" had a 6 speed for some reason. Guess my memory isn't as great as I thought it was... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBat Posted June 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 how's about this for some pure fantasy?!...I still think Pontiac should have made the 2dr GP the new GTO...they still could have done the rear drive set-up (but cost less to modify an existing platform and bring it in from DownUnder, yada,yada yada)...for that matter they could have gone with V8 pwr and AWD and it still woulda been badazz!...either way, here is my fantasy GTS racer, ready to take on the Vettes,Porsches and Ferraris...be it NorthStar power or SBC...or the baddest L36 Twin Turbo known to man!...(nothing against the double tuff L67, I've just never known of a roots type blower run at LeMans...I guess it's a reliability thing cuz somebody must have tried it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95 BLKDOUT Drop Top Posted June 28, 2004 Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 A company called ASG makes a kit with a punched out northstar engine just for w-body cars. Ive seen a few luminas with the kit but nothing else. It will fit any 1st gen W car. they use the 4.6 northstar block, special crank shaft, connecting rods, pistons, and all the hi-po parts. i think its a dohc 4valve/ cylinder engine. The kit varies in price startin at like $1000 and toppin out at $5500 but for that price it comes with EVERYTHING u need to just drop it right in, they even have the computer program to upgrade the ECM. here are a few links http:// http://www.angelfire.com/stars/mycaddy/asg.htm http://www.sounddomain.com/memberpage/380486/2 The first site has all the info u need including the prices and stuff, the second is a lumina that had the swap done. theres a site floatin around out there that has a sound sample of the exhaust, cant really find it. I want to have this swap done on my cutty when the 3100 takes a shit on me, Im waitin for it to happen soon cuz itz got 135XXX miles, plus there aint nothin like the rumble of a V8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95 BLKDOUT Drop Top Posted June 28, 2004 Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 just following up, the ASG kit will fit into the 2nd gen w-bodys too using the factory motor mount positions... somehow :? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutlassdude96 Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 this is a northstar engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBat Posted June 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 I think the V8 in the Z34 is a Caddy 4.9...the ones like used in the Allante...this is still a pushrod engine and even thoit is a V8 it aint got the punch of a NorthStar...I think it prolly has no more ponies than the L36...I couldnt get the Angelfire site to come up so I cant speak to what kind of performance mods they may have massaged it with...still, $5500 (if that includes the engine) and all the other nuts and bolts plus a PCM sounds like not such a bad deal...if its a 300 pony engine it would be in the same ballpark performance -wise with the L67...but it would have that sound!...not to mention rather unique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 A company called ASG makes a kit with a punched out northstar engine just for w-body cars. Ive seen a few luminas with the kit but nothing else. It will fit any 1st gen W car. they use the 4.6 northstar block, special crank shaft, connecting rods, pistons, and all the hi-po parts. i think its a dohc 4valve/ cylinder engine. Nope, ASG doesn't touch the Northstar. ASG works up the 4.9L V8, 3rd iteration of the Cadillac pushrod V8 from the 80's. Started as the HT4100, grew to the 4.5L, and then to the 4.9L. It's an iron headed, aluminum-block 2-valve per cylinder OHV engine. Yes, you heard that right, iron heads and aluminum block, backassward from any normal engine. It is a wet-sleeve engine... an unusual design where cylinders are sleeves. Pro is you can replace the cylinders, cons are sealing/compression problems. The only reason to bother with this engine is for the V8 sound and feel. Otherwise, a 3800 Series II outperforms the stock 4.9L and a 3800 Series II SC outperforms the ASG 5.0L version. It's similar to the one in the Allante, but the Allante got a special TPI intake manifold and plenum - a very rare find. Actually, it would have more "punch" than a Northstar considering it has a lot of low-end torque, but not a lot of high-end HP. The Northstar is all high-end, high-revving power. Northstar and its 4T80-E companion will fit a gen 2 W-body just fine, it just won't fit a gen 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBat Posted June 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 hey shawn...do you have any info on what Pontiac had to go thru to get the LS1 into the G8 concept? Are there any aftermarket people out there that offer conversion kits?...I know I've seen SBC's in Fiero chassis but I don't know what kind of dimensions that engine bay has. I'm guessing if there is room enough for a NorthStar in a gen2 then it should have room for the LS1...I wonder what differences there are in the new LS2? (all aluminum I think) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 Yeah, it's a specially designed LS1 with FWD tranny bolt pattern, special timing cover, etc. I've heard (from ZZP Performance I think?) that you can get the FWD LS1 shortblock for $15,000 from GM. I'm not sure if it's true, it would be strange that they would make an engine that's not used in anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBat Posted June 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 maybe there is some truth to the rumors I've been reading that they are going to offer the LS1 in the Monte SS...maybe they are gearing up for production, which would be very cool since that would offer the parts to the rest of us "W" owners...they may also be thinking they can produce that engine cheaper and make as much HP and torque as the L67. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 I don't know... they've had V8 prototypes over the years, but none made production. I hate that the only V8 engine option for us gen 1 guys (without major Monster Garage type fabrication) is the Caddy 4.9L. I have heard more recently rumors about a 5.3L LS1-derived engine being available in the Grand Prix for 05, but I don't know if that's true or not. Anyway, the problem with fitment of a RWD V8 in any W-body is primarily the length from tranny mount to pulleys. RWD style pulleys, water pump, timing cover, etc. takes up WAY too much space between the frame rails. Add an SBC tranny adapter and that increases the length by at least 1". If you look at a Northstar, it's very flat on the front with most accessories tucked out to the sides, and even then, there's just going to be fractions of an inch of clearance. Northstar just barely fits a gen 2, but won't fit a gen 1 due to width from head to head (I think it could fit lengthwise from tranny mount to pulleys). A new LS1-derived FWD-specific V8 should fit both gen 1 and gen 2 though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THe_DeTAiL3R Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 Our cars weren't meant for V8s anyways. I think V8 in a FWD platform is well.. silly. Convert a 1st gen w-body to RWD now that would make sense and be a hella cool car!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 If it sounds like a V8, feels like a V8, then there's nothing silly about it. :read: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbender Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 I think V8 in a FWD platform is well.. silly. Hmmm... tell that to someone with a late 1960s up Cadillac Eldorado (Oldsmobile Toronado too). Those monsters are FWD, and had V8 engines in them... Some even with the monster caddy 500 cu in motor. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 if only they made the lumina z50 prototype into a production car.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THe_DeTAiL3R Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 I think V8 in a FWD platform is well.. silly. Hmmm... tell that to someone with a late 1960s up Cadillac Eldorado (Oldsmobile Toronado too). Those monsters are FWD, and had V8 engines in them... Some even with the monster caddy 500 cu in motor. Paul I know there are big cars with V8s and FWD... I'd never own one though. It just makes sense to me that engines that long should be turned the correct way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 I know there are big cars with V8s and FWD... I'd never own one though. It just makes sense to me that engines that long should be turned the correct way... Actually, in the cars Paul is talking about, the engine is turned the right way - longitudinal (north/south). It wasn't until the 80's that they started using sideways engines in FWD's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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