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Rattling and clunk


cessna
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Grade 8 bolts will be fine, but Grade 5 would work just fine.

 

If a patch-plate will work (subframe not totally rotted-out) the worst part of this mess will be getting the original hardware out.

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Yes make sure the rot has not caused more problems than what is showing on the surface like Shurkey suggested, if it is still intact you should be good to go if that would be a better alternative for you, like I said I need to take a closer look at mine when the time permits, that was just a simple suggestion,also make sure you use a strait edge to line up the holes you want to drill,  the bolt should be as vertical as possible to eliminate any added stress....let me know if you try this and how it works out for you ......Cessna

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A little crowbar persuasion pried it up & off, with the bushing.

 

 

post-9815-0-66104700-1493356836_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes Shurkey, Grade 5 would probably do the job..

 

post-9815-0-89439200-1493357131_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Bolts are 3/8 or 10mm (not sure), head is 1/2 inch (13mm), nut is 11/16.

 

post-9815-0-33098600-1493357712_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 the worst part of this mess will be getting the original hardware out.

 

I think I'll need heat to get it apart.

 

Cessna, I had thought of your suggestion, but dismissed it, thinking the top rot would be excessive, and a welded plate would be necessary.

Welding would be better, but I may try through-bolts with a bottom plate, bought them today. Rot is not too bad, quite local to those two bolt holes.

 

If welding a top plate, I would want to hammer down the top surface to leave a level finished surface. Not much room for a hammer there.

Nor is it the easiest place to weld - rubber boots, brake & gas lines, sway bar in the way. 

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1.  The bolts are metric.  Doesn't matter, you're not going to re-use them.

 

2.  Don't bother trying to unthread the nuts.  Scrap the old bolts and strap.

 

3.  Buy a Polyurethane sway bar mount set of the proper diameter and bolt spacing.  Comes with the Poly bushings, and new metal straps.  You'll need to source bolts long enough to go through the subframe and reinforcement strap that you'll fabricate.  May even need a reinforcement on the top of the subframe, under the sway bar mounts--maybe 1/16 thick or so.  The top plate MIGHT be included with the sway bar mount set.

 

ens-9-5106g_ml.jpg

 

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ens-9-5159g

 

My Luminas take the 23mm version.  Yours may be different.

 

4.  As long as you're spending money, you could consider replacing the end-links with Poly parts, too.

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Wow Gs looks as tho you do have a little problem there, glad you got them out , like shurkey said in the trash is best for those 2, yes I would agree its going to be tight maybe you could get the width of the frame and kinda make a cap to fit over and weld on the sides instead of the top room permitting that is im not sure how much of an effect it would be on the sway bar if you used say 1/16 steel i would think the bushing could handle that amount without problem.

Let us know how it all works out ..Cessna 

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Thanks for the input. I made this repair last Friday using the old parts & new bolts.

Will post a couple of pics in a day or two that might help cessna.

The sub-frame rot could be worse, but could be better too - don't like to see steel missing at a corner spot..

Sub-frame really should be removed & inspected & welded up right. For now it will hold.

Shurkey, I have new Moog poly bushings, but did not install - explanation to follow with pics.

Good idea to place a thin top plate.

 

Replaced the end bushings last year to stop bar vibration, but didn't help because the bar ends are worn

from sand & road dirt - so there's play and it rattles around. 

This could be normal for the mileage - c.180,000 miles

Possible solutions are to: 

1.replace bar - but could be hard to source a good one.

2. build up the ends by filling low points with welding rod, then grind to shape.

3. inject polyurethane caulking into gap between bushing & bar - cheap fix.

 

Overall lesson here: Could have been avoided by careful anti-rust oil spray treatment.

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Replaced the end bushings last year to stop bar vibration, but didn't help because the bar ends are worn

from sand & road dirt - so there's play and it rattles around. 

This could be normal for the mileage - c.180,000 miles

Possible solutions are to: 

1.replace bar - but could be hard to source a good one.

2. build up the ends by filling low points with welding rod, then grind to shape.

3. inject polyurethane caulking into gap between bushing & bar - cheap fix.

 

Overall lesson here: Could have been avoided by careful anti-rust oil spray treatment

Waiting on photos, as I don't understand how the end-links can have "play".  I don't get this at all.

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Waiting on photos, as I don't understand how the end-links can have "play".  I don't get this at all.

Corrosion and debris rubbing over time can eat away at the bar metal, making the ends a smaller diameter than original, ultimately causing play inside the original bushings. This happens all the time in our wonderfully salty state.

 

 

3. inject polyurethane caulking into gap between bushing & bar - cheap fix.

Don't do that, those need to rotate and there is no way you can get the poly perfectly round. You could look into bushings made for a smaller diameter. Performance wouldn't be affected much either, since the narrowing is at the end of the bar.

Edited by vipmiller803
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  • 1 month later...

Corrosion and debris rubbing over time can eat away at the bar metal, making the ends a smaller diameter than original, ultimately causing play inside the original bushings. This happens all the time in our wonderfully salty state.

 

Yes Schurkey, vip is correct on this - the anti sway bar is quite worn at the outer ends where it's in contact with the bushings.

Lots of road salt & sand in this region.

When I get around to fixing this, I'll take a pic for you.

The inboard bushing contact point also quite worn.

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Hey GS any pics of the new mod yet ....would like to see how it turned out ............

Sorry to leave you hanging. Life threw a curve ball.

I implemented your idea of through bolts and a bottom plate, using what I had on hand - 3/16, heavier than required.

Thanks Schurkey for your input, I installed a new bushing, but kept the old U-bracket and nuts.

From the looks of the old bushing, the anti-sway bar may have been knurled at that point,

but these patterns have rusted/worn away.

The sub frame and components warrant a closer inspection, disassembly, etc. 

 

Old Bushing - note knurl pattern

post-9815-0-73220500-1499321370_thumb.jpg

post-9815-0-29894200-1499321441_thumb.jpg

 

 

Bracket split when other end broke loose, but still strong

post-9815-0-21817500-1499321656_thumb.jpg

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Daylight in top of subframe..bar worn

post-9815-0-08239600-1499322141_thumb.jpg

 

 

Top plate reinforcement - could have been heavier..

post-9815-0-10932500-1499322339_thumb.jpg

 

 

Compare

post-9815-0-05342700-1499322491_thumb.jpg

 

 

Components

post-9815-0-72497300-1499322588_thumb.jpg

 

 

Installed

An interim repair, but quite secure. Stopped the rattle & clunk.

Later added hardened lock washers.

post-9815-0-78637300-1499322757_thumb.jpg

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looks like a winner there 95Gs 

"Stabilized"....

 

Did you fix your own - is it the same issue?

 

BTW - as predicted, that old hardware was really stubborn - propane + lotsa torque,

but the old nuts have nice large flanges, so worth keeping.

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My bushings look fine, seems to be coming from front strut on drivers side the more I look into it, thinking of changing front struts out don't really like these Monroe's the car has a lot of bounce to it .....more than i like anyway so after that we will see if it clears it up .......... 

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Nobody seems to like Gabriel Ultra struts but mine have treated me well. Not too soft but not performance stiff either. Kind of a nice dd middle ground.

Edited by Imp558
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My bushings look fine, seems to be coming from front strut on drivers side the more I look into it, thinking of changing front struts out don't really like these Monroe's the car has a lot of bounce to it .....more than i like anyway so after that we will see if it clears it up .......... 

 A lot of bounce may be a separate matter from rattle and clunk.

Might need a closer inspection, with pry bar.

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