Mstg007 Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 I have just in installed a new pump in my car. I drained the whole system and replaced it with clean ATF. As I would run the pump, I would push the down button on the switch and the top would raise to close. As I pushed The up bottom on the switch, the pump would do nothing. The top was down too begin with. So as I ran the pump and heard a gargling sound, then stop and add more ATF. So as I repeated those steps to get the top to close the top. It seemed the pump piece motor was working ok. Again I was pushing the down button too get the top to close. I had the car engine off and would push the up bottom on the switch but would not hear a thing. When I pushed the down button I heard the pump engage. I believe with my original pump I would have to push the up button on the switch several times until the pump would engage and when it did, it would close really really slowly and the fluid was at the right level in the resevoir. How can I and what electrical pieces do I need to test or replace to get my convertible back to working condition? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mstg007 Posted March 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 I think I might have found some of the answers I have been looking for. I know this link does not pertain to the 1994 Cutlass Supreme Convertible I have, but it helps. Could you please see if there is anything that is way out of the ordinary with this below link... Its for a mustang convertible pump system. http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/c_convertible.html [h=2]Wiring Diagram[/h] The convertible top will only operate with the parking brake engaged and the ignition switch in the RUN position. When the parking brake is engaged, the raise and lower relay coils are grounded through the parking brake switch. The Generic Electronic Module (GEM) also lights up the "brake" indicator on the dash. The convertible top switch supplies power to the raise or lower relay coil when raise or lower is selected. This power energizes the coil causing the relay contacts to close which supplies battery power to the convertible top motor/pump assembly. The normal state of the relay is connected to ground. When the raise or lower relay is operating, the other relay remains in its normal state supplying the motor/pump ground. [h=2]The Hydraulic System[/h] The convertible top hydraulic system is comprised of a hydraulic pump, two lift cylinders, and the connecting hydraulic lines. The hydraulic system is removed as an assembly, but the components may be repaired separately. [h=3]Servicing the Hydraulic System[/h] CHECK THE FLUID LEVEL Place an absorbent cloth below the filler plug when checking the fluid level. Remove the filler plug and check the fluid level. The fluid level should be even with the bottom of the filler plug hole. [*]CHECK THE HYDRAULIC SYSTEM FOR LEAKS Inspect all fittings and hoses for leaks. REPAIR any leaking fittings or INSTALL new hoses as necessary. [*]BLEED THE SYSTEM Remove the hydraulic system from the vehicle. Remove the fill plug at the end of the hydraulic pump. Fill the pump with Mercon® Multi-Purpose Automatic Transmission Fluid XT-2-QDX or equivalent to the bottom of the fill hole and install the fill plug. (Some noise squeal may be noticed due to the air in the system.) Connect a 12-volt power source to the motor connector and operate the motor until the cylinders are fully extended. Reverse the 12-volt connection to fully retract the cylinders. Repeat this procedure three times. Remove the fill plug and check the fluid level. Fill the pump with MERCON® Multi-Purpose Automatic Transmission Fluid XT-2-QDX or equivalent to the bottom of the fill hole. Install a fill plug. Install the hydraulic system in the vehicle. [h=2]Troubleshooting[/h] If the convertible top does not raise/lower, does not go up all the way, or hesitates/comes up uneven, check: Convertible top switch. Fuse 20 (under dash) Parking brake switch. Raise/Lower relay U (under hood) Convertible top adjustment. Hydraulic lift cylinders. Hydraulic motor/pump assembly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mstg007 Posted March 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2015 Could someone guide me to what relay is on what side of the pump? Also, are both relays the sand and where is a good place to get them? Thanks again for any help. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Escobar Posted March 17, 2015 Report Share Posted March 17, 2015 Our pumps don't have that weird setup, they can actually operate with the parking brake off and the car can be on the ON position. As far as your issue, this is one of those "it helps if you have the service manual" things. I'll check if I can find the diagram for the top, but you may have a faulty lead causing you to not be able to use the pump correctly. Give me a day or 2 and I'll post the correct diagram (IF I HAVE IT) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mstg007 Posted March 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2015 Thank you so much!!!! Sorry for all the posts... Weather is getting better and I was in the middle of the installation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Escobar Posted March 17, 2015 Report Share Posted March 17, 2015 As promised, I have taken pictures of the convertible top wiring diagram. I also took pics of the diagnostic pages. They may or may not be of help to you. If you need any more pictures of the service manual, tell me and I can get them for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mstg007 Posted March 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2015 Woohoo! Thank you so much again!!!! Hopefully this will solve my problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mstg007 Posted March 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 Well, wanted to give an update. I played around with my relays and they seem to be ok. However I think half my problem is the switch. I think the up button on the switch broke. How do you get to the switch to repair it? Do you have to take the middle console out? The other dumb question I have is, if the down button makes the top go up. Does this mean I have the tubes plugged in the wrong way? Thanks guys again Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Escobar Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 You have to get the center console out. That would be the easiest way. The harder way would be for you to pop a flathead screwdriver under the switch and pull it out. That is NOT recommended btw. And the tubes have nothing to do with that. That's purely electrical. Or the switch was turned around meaning it was tampered with before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mstg007 Posted March 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 Before I swapped the pumps, the switches worked correctly.... Up and down. I know I do not have the same year pump but that should not matter, I would think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Escobar Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 That would mean the electric portion is different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mstg007 Posted March 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 I thought all the pumps between 91 and 95. So I would not think the electricals would be the same. Plus it's the same plug as the original one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Escobar Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 Your pump looks different than mine to begin with and I have a 94. Isn't yours a rebuild? Or is it a working pull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) If the hoses are routed nicely and don't look twisted, the switch can be turned around when it's fixed or replaced. I removed the pump and cylinders from a '93 vert from a yard. The pump and cylinders looked the same as '94 but the hose connections were different and do not interchange. They will work if you replace the pump, cylinders and hoses as a set. Seems like the '93 hoses were black VS '94 has white hoses. Sunbird and Cavalier Vert pumps will work too. The one I got was out of a '94 Cavy, the hose fittings were the same as my '94 Vert. Edited March 18, 2015 by George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Escobar Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 He already took care of the hose issue. If you scroll up to his earlier posts, you'll find this picture. However would it be possible that he reversed the flow of the fluid causing the switch to operate backwards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mstg007 Posted March 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 Great question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mstg007 Posted March 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Bty, how do you easily take out the center console? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_mezz Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 IIRC first you have to remove the shifter handle (large staple shaped clip that faces the front of the car), then remove the shifter plate (2 screws under the coin holder then move the shifter to the drive position and the plate should slide up and out), then the console compartment (2 or 3 screws in the bottom of the compartment), then finally the console body (2 bolts up front under the shift plate, and I think another bolt or 2 under the console compartment. been a while since I took one out but I think that covers it. It's pretty easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mstg007 Posted March 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Awesomecranks a bunch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mstg007 Posted March 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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