pwmin Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) My headlights were dimming with my sub (500W RMS) and the battery cables were hacked when I bought it because I think a battery had exploded previously. I changed my cables to 4 ga and added a wire from the alternator to the fuse panel. It charges well (usually around 15.1V), but it was still dimming. I changed the wires out to 1/0 gauge and added one from the alternator to the battery. The chassis ground, I ran a wire directly from the top post (I use the side posts for the other cables except the amp cable). The lights don't dim as much and it charges up to 15.3V (15.5V is the upper limit for this car from what I read), but I am now getting the Battery Save Active display on the DIC. From what I read, it's supposed to do that if the voltage is low, but that's certainly not the case. It does jump around a lot on the DIC, but reads steady 14.7V at the battery. Anyone know why this would be happening? Nothing seems to suffer. Edited February 17, 2015 by pwmin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 having it read more than 14.7 on the DIC is opposite than what I would expect. I would think 4+ ga would be ok for 500 watts. the only time I saw had that kind of draw was dual batteries and 1000+ watts. but the block-to-battery tray wire may have been screwed. which is easy to do with battery acid. Did you try hosing it with battery acid detection foam? that stuff is cool looking when it hits Hcl acid. it changes colors and neutralizes acid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55trucker Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 If you remove the amp from the system will your electrics return to normal? watts output of the amp is not directly the issue, it's the AMPS that the amp is drawing to drive it, if running at max capacity (500w) at 13v the amp would draw 40amps, your main battery cables (now 4ga.) should easily allow 135 amps to flow without issue, what size conductors are you using to connect the amp to the electrical system? Have you taken the live side off the remote terminal & where does the ground side of the amp go to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwmin Posted February 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) having it read more than 14.7 on the DIC is opposite than what I would expect. I would think 4+ ga would be ok for 500 watts. the only time I saw had that kind of draw was dual batteries and 1000+ watts. but the block-to-battery tray wire may have been screwed. which is easy to do with battery acid. Did you try hosing it with battery acid detection foam? that stuff is cool looking when it hits Hcl acid. it changes colors and neutralizes acid. I replaced everything that was corroded already. The only wire I kept was the one to the starter. If you remove the amp from the system will your electrics return to normal? watts output of the amp is not directly the issue, it's the AMPS that the amp is drawing to drive it, if running at max capacity (500w) at 13v the amp would draw 40amps, your main battery cables (now 4ga.) should easily allow 135 amps to flow without issue, what size conductors are you using to connect the amp to the electrical system? Have you taken the live side off the remote terminal & where does the ground side of the amp go to? I haven't tried unhooking the amp, but it was fine until I added it. There were some ghost bcm codes when I bought it because it had a crappy battery that wasn't supplying enough voltage. It dimmed the lights on my 98 Regal, too. I did have another amp hooked up, too, though. but I believe the headlamps dimmed with just the one amp, though. My main battery cables are now 1/0 ga and the lights don't really dim anymore, but the battery save active message comes up and sometimes turns my HVAC off. I have the amp hooked up with 4 ga cable (also Knuconeptz Kolossus). Maybe I need to up that to 1/0, IDK. The odd thing is the battery save mode coming on when the voltage is just fine. It's reading fine on the DIC, too. Not sure what you mean 'have I taken the live side off the remote terminal?'. The amp is ground to the seat back frame. I ground the paint off good and used a bolt with a lock washer. Edited February 17, 2015 by pwmin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55trucker Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 I have the amp hooked up with 4 ga cable (also Knuconeptz Kolossus). Maybe I need to up that to 1/0, IDK. The odd thing is the battery save mode coming on when the voltage is just fine. It's reading fine on the DIC, too. Not sure what you mean 'have I taken the live side off the remote terminal?'. The amp is ground to the seat back frame. I ground the paint off good and used a bolt with a lock washer. Pardon my error: the seventh gen cars make use of a top post battery, the earlier cars with a side post (that was hard to get at) had a remote terminal located near the battery to aide in boosting & to run certain accessories, depending on where you have the amp, (trunk/under the seat) try running a ground directly back to the battery/engine block ground cable to avoiding using the chassis as a ground source, 4 ga cable should be more than enough, at idle you need to know how much amp draw the alternator is seeing with all that is on when your situation presents itself, if memory serves the unit should be a 120-125 amp item. question: I'm assuming that your amp rating is *peak* or *max* and not RMS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwmin Posted February 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Pardon my error: the seventh gen cars make use of a top post battery, the earlier cars with a side post (that was hard to get at) had a remote terminal located near the battery to aide in boosting & to run certain accessories, depending on where you have the amp, (trunk/under the seat) try running a ground directly back to the battery/engine block ground cable to avoiding using the chassis as a ground source, 4 ga cable should be more than enough, at idle you need to know how much amp draw the alternator is seeing with all that is on when your situation presents itself, if memory serves the unit should be a 120-125 amp item. question: I'm assuming that your amp rating is *peak* or *max* and not RMS. Actually, it's 900x1 @ 2 ohms RMS and it is CEA-2006 compliant...Kenwood KAC-9105D, my bad. I was thinking RMS @ 4 ohms. I'm not sure how many watts it's actually pushing, but the sub is rated at 600 W RMS @ 2 ohms...Massive Audio Kilo 104. I have the amp in the trunk. I have some extra 4ga so I can try running that to the battery. I have a dual post AC Delco battery in there right now and run the chassis ground off the negative top post and the amp wire off the positive top post and the other wires running to the side posts. I had to run all my own wires except for the starter wire because all the others were toast. The stock alternator should be 125A. Judging by the smaller aftermarket battery that it had before, the rusted out battery tray that I replaced, the cut back factory wires and all the missing paint around the battery, the stock battery "exploded" at one time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado_735 Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I might have missed it, but do you have a capacitor in the loop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwmin Posted February 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2015 I don't have a cap; I try to avoid using them. The lights are dimming a little still, but the interior lights dim pretty good. I am going to take the cable off from the alt to the batt and see if that makes a difference. Besides upgrading the wires and running the ground from the top post to the chassis, that's the only thing that has changed. I want the warning to quit coming, but also for the lights to not dim. I might try a cap, but I would rather buy a more higher amperage alternator except for the cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted February 21, 2015 Report Share Posted February 21, 2015 I'm wondering if your new wiring scheme is allowing just enough more current to be pulled to drag system voltage low enough for a long enough period of time to trigger that warning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwmin Posted February 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2015 The weird thing is that is doesn't ever go below 13V. I can't recall the exact number or what the minimum acceptable voltage is, though. I don't know why/how the sensor would go bad at that exact time after giving it more voltage. I'm also not sure why the lights would dim when it's getting over 14 volts most of the time. I know you can't use the ZZP voltage booster on 05+ GP's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted February 21, 2015 Report Share Posted February 21, 2015 you may not see it go below 13V, but it can(and likely does) update that value internally somewhere between 10 and 100 times a second and just shows you the average. otherwise, it gets a system voltage value from some other module it communicates with, which would determine its update rate. you may be causing a larger voltage drop to the system as a whole because of a better current path for the amp. if the old wiring only allowed 450W through, voltage at the battery and all modules would be slightly higher than if the new wiring were to allow 500W through it. 50 watts at 13 volts is 3.85 amps that would otherwise be sunk into the battery and/or consumed by the rest of the car's electronics. could be the difference between 13.1 and 13.0 volts, if that is the trigger point for the battery saving mode. keep in mind the alternator doesn't react instantly to changes in system voltage either, the regulator in a CS130D operates at a speed of 400Hz and from what I'm told does have some duty cycle transient change limits to prevent the alternator from fully loading and fully unloading in situations like this, which would make for a hell of a time trying to control idle speed. I don't know what the third gens used for alternators, but I imagine they would operate similarly through either a similar regulator or if it's entirely PCM controlled, then via software limits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwmin Posted February 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2015 I have the same wiring running to the amp, I just gave the grounds and things bigger wire. I need to get in the garage and remove that wire from the alt to the batt, but snow makes me a sad panda, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwmin Posted February 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Got the wire from the alt to the batt off, but we're having shitty weather after the 70's all of the sudden and it's supposed to last until next weekend, so I won't be driving the car much if it all before then. If I hadn't washed it before the storms, I would be driving it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwmin Posted March 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 Finally got to drive the car today and the battery save active warning came on again. Guess I'll try a new sensor next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadfoot Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 If you remove the amp from the system will your electrics return to normal? watts output of the amp is not directly the issue, it's the AMPS that the amp is drawing to drive it, if running at max capacity (500w) at 13v the amp would draw 40amps, your main battery cables (now 4ga.) should easily allow 135 amps to flow without issue, what size conductors are you using to connect the amp to the electrical system? Have you taken the live side off the remote terminal & where does the ground side of the amp go to? Also keep in mind not all wire is the same. I have seen different "4 gauge" wires side by side and the actual size of the wire was smaller on some. They have more insulation and appear to be the same physical size. You might be running smaller than 4 gauge and not know it. As has been mentioned, some amps are more power hungry than others for the same wattage output. I have had 2 different amps that put out the same "watts" in the same car, same wiring, same sub, same box, etc. I was installing a sub in a new to me car. I wanted to try them both. One dimmed the lights and pulled the voltage down significantly. The other did not hardly any. Same amount of volume, etc. One amp was just significantly more efficient. I don't recall Kenwood amps nec being very power hungry, but it is possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwmin Posted March 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 I have 1/0 gauge wiring for the cables now and it's Knuconceptz Kolossus, so it's true 1/0 gauge OFC. The amp is also running off of Kolossus, but 4 ga. I've been spending too much this month already, so I'm going to order 1/0 gauge next month. I have to think the alternator might be going bad as the battery is new and I have plenty of wiring running to the battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwmin Posted March 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Put the cable back on from the alt to batt last night and now the voltage reading doesn't seem to fluctuate as much and the interior lights don't seem to be dimming. I didn't receive the battery saver active warning on my way to work, but it's only a 10 minute drive. While I was putting the cables back on, the wire with the single wire connector came out of the ring terminal. Not sure if that had anything to do with it. I need to drive the car some more and hopefully it will stay this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwmin Posted March 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 was jumping all over again on the way home, but no message Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwmin Posted March 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 I haven't installed the new sensor yet, but I will this weekend. The battery saver is coming on again. When they amp isn't pushing, the current stays pretty steady, but when it kicks in, that's when the voltage drops on the DIC. I need to check the voltage at the battery when it's bumping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runt Posted March 13, 2015 Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 What is the age on the battery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwmin Posted March 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2015 Put it in right after I bought the car. So less than 6 months Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runt Posted March 17, 2015 Report Share Posted March 17, 2015 Found this: ok so im gonna copy and post a post i made on grandprixforums.net 1st things first....so i have in my position finally the new fuse box cover and the battery current sensor. Starting with the battery current sensor, i talked with the master tech at GM when i picked it all up today and they explained to me that the stock sensor on my car (GM part #10306471) was a known issue with the cars that it was installed in from 2005 to very first off the line 2007s. Then it was superseded by GM part #13505369 at that point which is supposed to fix the issues. continuing my talk with him the purpose of said sensor is to help regulate the power in the car from the alternator and also provides the voltage the the Drivers information center shows. (Didn't ask how it works didnt really care lol). Also when i told him that sometimes when i have the alternator tested when the cars electrical is acting weird the regulator in the alternator shows being bad and other times it didn't, well guess what....this stupid piece of crap sensor can make it appear so to the simple testers that it is a bad alternator...go freaking figure. well hopefully this fixes my problems when i stick it in tomorrow!! and just to through it out there....it did fix my battery saver mode active. before replacing that i rebuilt alternator....twice replaced battery with optima red top 1000 CCAs tried new wiring and then replaced that sensor. no more problems...my voltage stays more steady and all around better From here: http://ls1tech.com/forums/ls4-performance/1527804-battery-saver-active.html Yeah it's for the LS4 but should be similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwmin Posted March 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 interesting...thanks! I heard that you can't interchange the current sensors between the 5V and 10V reference ones. I'll try this new one and see how it works, just haven't gotten around to it yet...should be tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwmin Posted March 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 okay, so I tried one of the sensors new from GM and I got a service vehicle soon warning. After checking codes, it was because of an invalid battery current signal. If I reset the code and started it, it would read 15+ V and then it would come on and read around 13.5. I installed the other sensor (different part number) and everything is working much better. It charges at around 14.5 now, but does drop below 14 a little when the bass hits, but not down to 13 like it was. The headlights and interior lights don't really dim anymore, either. I may still convert the amp wiring to 1/0 gauge, but I'm very happy now. The battery saver active warning hasn't come back on, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwmin Posted April 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 I swapped in an Xtreme Permaseal AGM battery from Batteries Plus and I don't notice any more dimming. I was listening to the new ICP album and it has some pretty strong bass, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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