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FIXED - Replaced starter - now car is posessed. drivability issues, electrical issues


PTAaron
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EDIT: Problem solved - see posts 4 and 5.

 

Okay - here is the slightly long story about my '94 cutlass supreme (3.1L):

Over the winter/spring I replaced my head gasket and all other gaskets, MAP sensor, O2 sensor, fuel pump, fuel filter, ECT sensor, and a few other random bits and pieces - but the car had a persistent issue with not starting... turn the key - click - nothing - turn again - starts. I bypassed the "security" feature with some resistors which didn't help, so back in May I replaced the started with a "good" junk yard starter - that fixed the starting issue.

About 2 weeks later pulling into my driveway I made it halfway to my garage and the car wouldn't move anymore - engine revved but the car sat there as if I had a slipping clutch, but the car is an automatic.

It didn't happen again for another week or so - but by then the starter was once again doing the "click" thing randomly. I noticed that the voltage gauge in the dash was reading impossibly low at times that the car would suffer from the "slipping clutch" symptoms and also when those symptoms were present there would be a loud "thud" sound coming through the speakers. Turning off the blower made the noise stop, the voltage go up, and the "slipping" stop. I've been dealing with this off an on since May, but it has been very intermittent. In the past few weeks it has happened more and more frequently, and now the car is randomly stalling while at stop lights. I have resorted to dropping into "Drive 1" at lights so I can leave the light with some power - then the car drives as normal once I am moving. This morning the tach and speedometer needles started jumping all over the place while we were driving with the AC on - turning the blower off made everything go back to normal.

 

So - I am ordering a new starter this afternoon (AMazon seems to have the best price...) because the problems all started after installing the starter... but I'm not sure this will fix the problems.

Automatic transmissions are a mystery to me - I assume they work by some form of black magic, possibly voodoo, but it seems the transmission is having some sort of issue. Could that be caused by a voltage problem? When the "loss of power" is present it feels like when I would forget to downshift at a light with a manual trans and try leaving the light in 3rd gear. Could an electrical issue make the transmission "confused" or am I dealing with more than one thing here?

 

I should also mention that the blower for the HVAC system only works on "high" right now - 2 weeks ago the other levels stopped working.

 

Am I on the right track with putting in a different starter?

My other thought is "something else" is wrong that actually caused the new starter to fail... but I don't know what that could be.

 

I'm at 189,000 miles as of this morning - I really want to see this car make it to 200,000!

Edited by PTAaron
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I know there is definitely an electrical issue somewhere because the "thudding" in the speakers happens even when the car is in key on/engine off while I am trying to listen to the radio after stopping the car - just don't know where to look to track it down.

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considering the starter post forms part of the charging and distribution of +12V, i would start looking in that area for an intermittently grounded or opening wire. could temporarily bypass that part of the circuit pretty easily and connect the alternator's charging post to the battery +12V or aux +12V post and see if that solves issues, i would be looking at potential ground issues too.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Finally got a chance to get back on here for an update...

 

Do you have any after market wiring of any kind on the car?

No sir, everything is stock as far as I am aware.

 

considering the starter post forms part of the charging and distribution of +12V, i would start looking in that area for an intermittently grounded or opening wire. could temporarily bypass that part of the circuit pretty easily and connect the alternator's charging post to the battery +12V or aux +12V post and see if that solves issues, i would be looking at potential ground issues too.

Thank you. That sounds like the most logical area for there to be a problem...

 

==

 

UPDATE: Replacing the starter (predictably) did not change anything at all, except it starts easier...

My father in-law and I started trying to track down a voltage drop between points in the system - discovered almost immediately that the aux 12v positive post was too hot to touch and so was the wire leading to it. The post was also loose with cracked plastic at the base where it attaches to the fuse box on the fender well. Measuring voltage between the aux post and the battery negative (with AC running, headlights on, and turn signal on) showed a fluctuating 10-12v. Measruing alternator to battery negative showed around 14v. I don't know how that could be causing an intermittent ground issue... but we got a junk yard replacement part that we will be testing out tomorrow night.

I also noticed that the battery negative cable that attaches to the transmission looked pretty ugly - exposed wire that was VERY green with corrosion... I will try to clean that up tomorrow night as well.

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Last night we replaced the drivers side underhood fuse box and the positive battery cable... and for the first time since I've owned the car the voltage gauge on the dash reads the actual voltage! The wire stayed room temperature while the car was running and I was able to run the AC, radio, headlights, turn signals, and have the car in drive without the needle dropping more than 1 volt.

All that remains is to get the blower motor to operate on a setting other than "High"... I'm guessing there is a resistor somewhere that got fried, but it isn't listed in the Haynes manual anywhere... time for a forum search!

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On a related note - fired the car up this morning to go to the gym and the horn started blasting... kept blasting after the car was turned off... until I was able to dig out my 13mm socket and remove the support bar, pop open the new fuse box, and use some pliers to yank out the horn relay. That was a fun surprise for me and my neighbors!!

Didn't do it last night when we ran the car for about 10 minutes...

Maybe this explains why the post/box got toasted in the first place? The car had been in a minor accident prior to it being passed on to me. The steering column had been rebuilt because of the airbag, and since I've owned it the horn has never worked. APPARENTLY the horn button is stuck in the "honk" position? I don't know... For now I will keep the relay out until I can track down WTH is going on.

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