Nas Escobar Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 Brakes (Front): 12 inch brake upgrade - Found on 00-04 Le Sabre, 97-04 Park Avenue, 97-99 Riviera, 97-05 Deville, 97-02 ElDorado, 97-04 Seville, 00-05 Impala, 00-04 Monte Carlo, 97-99 01-03 Aurora, 98 intrigue, 00-03 Bonneville, and 04+ Grand Prix. This is by far the easiest brake upgrade you can do. To my knowledge, they'll clear 16 inch wheels, which is also a plus. All you need is the rotors and caliper brackets off of any of those vehicles. Everything is a direct swap, no bleeding needed. F-Body brakes - Dual Piston, larger rotors, but harder to find and more expensive. You need the rotors, calipers, and 18023646 bolts, I personally have not done this upgrade (I plan to). That being said, I've read about it quite a bit online, and from what I've read, those bolts will make it a bolt on swap. It's best to get new brake lines, but some say you can use your stock lines. They are on 98-02 Camaros and Firebirds. I own a Camaro and I just wanna say that F body brakes aren't hard to find at all. In fact, you can get a reman caliper at Advance Auto Parts for $50, plus a $40 core. Camaro's are not that expensive to maintain. In fact, my Cutlass Supreme is more expensive to find parts for it since it has the LQ1 engine. The rotor usually costs $40-$50, which is on par with what I have paid to buy rotors for both my Cutlass Supreme and my old Grand Am. Usually, if you buy the stuff on their site and pick it up at the store, it's cheaper. You can use promo codes on their site and you usually save 15 to 20 percent. http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/remanufactured-brake-caliper-with-mounting-bracket-slc447/18340169-P?searchTerm=caliper#fragment-3 Link may die so just put in caliper and use a 2000 Chevy Camaro. While on this subject, if Camaro brakes fit, then C5 Corvette ones do too. Those are made of a lighter metal and are made with a higher quality. They also have cooling fins. I've heard that 3rd gen W body (more so Grand Prix GXP) and C5 rear calipers interchange. This is just an FYI, and something that should be looked up. And brake lines, you can use the same one. I made that mistake when I did my Grand Am rear disc conversion, and I bought the brake lines, which were shorter than the drum ones. If I could do that again, I would use the same line. Unless it's damaged, don't touch it. That's my ideology. Also, please be more specific about the bolts that need to swap. I'm assuming you have to swap brackets because on the Camaro, you have to swap brackets to upgrade to Corvette brakes (which is moreso a matter of preference than an actual upgrade). Engine: Alternator: CS144. Most of our 3.8l's come with the pitiful CS130D, which put out a measly 30-50 amps at idle (102 MAX), and runs HOT thanks to the internal fan and bad cooling. The CS144 puts out 80-110 amps at idle, and maxes out anywhere from 140-160+ amps. CS144s come factory in a 96-99 Buick LeSabre, 96 Park Avenue, 98-99 Lumina, 98 Monte Carlo, 96-99 Olds 88, 96 Olds 98, 96-99 Olds LSS, 97-98 Olds Regnecy, or a 96-99 Bonneville. REMEMBER: If you have not already, upgrade your charge wire from your Alternator to your battery. There is 1 wire to cut and splice on the CS144, and you need a 99 Camaro (3.8l) alternator bracket. If you have a 97-98 Park Avenue, 96-98 Regal, 95-98 Riviera, 98 Lumina, 98 Monte Carlo, 98 Intrigue, or 97-98 Grand Prix, this will be a bolt on swap. If you have one of those cars and you ever need to replace your tensioner (alternator bracket), replace it with a 99 Camaro 3.8L bracket. The stock brackets for those cars have an integral coolant elbow that is prone to breaking the timing cover during removal; the Camaro bracket utilizes 2 coolant elbows, like the 99+ tensioners. You'll also need the connector for one of these altenators, a junkyard is probably your best bet for this. The simplest wiring on these is to connect your current red wire (NOT the charge wire, but the red wire to the connector on the alternator) to the red wire on the alternator connector. If there are additional wires, post here or consult Haynes\Chiltons\Interwebs for wiring diagrams. You'll also need a 94 inch serpentine belt to complete the swap. Finally, if you have a supercharged engine (mainly a Gen V) you'll need to grind a bit off the back of the alternator case. I'll get pics of that later. Pics: 99 Camaro bracket: The Camaro bracket is actually known for eating those plastic coolant elbows that connect to the LIM and the water pump. If I was you, I would take the seals off of the plastic coolant elbows and get metal ones from the parts store. They don't cost more than $10. It's a worthwhile upgrade. They look like this. Also, IDK if this is a Camaro specific problem or if all 3800's are affected, but the heater hoses are known to pop off from the alternator bracket/belt tensioner on the Camaro. This is how it looks on the Camaro. In order to prevent this, the easiest way is to convert those annoying plastic clips (which break anyways when you mess around with the bracket) to snake belts. It looks like this when done. They can be found online under the name "Camaro heater hose fitting repair". They sell them at the parts store, or at least I saw them out in Maryland, but IDK the part number. Ive seriously thinking of going to 99-04 grand am rear calipers and and running an actual e-brake, The Grand Am/Alero guys acutally upgrade Gen 3 GXP rear brakes, though not as common as the F body upgrade. I've also heard of the C5 Vette's rear caliper fitting on the Grand Am as well. You should look into that, that way you can go back to having an E brake and do a 12" rotor back there as well. I REALLY REALLY want to re-design the entire E-brake system and eliminate the jackass "Push-To-Release" pedal! How are we supposed to do E-brake donuts with that stupid ass thing? The earlier W's had a lever that would release the ebrake pedal. For some odd reason, they took that feature away between 92 and 94. Not sure what year, but I know 94's are push to release/pump to set. That could be a retrofit idea. It still wouldn't allow any ebrake tricks, but it is what it is. Although, you do bring up a good quesiton... how are we supposed to use that in an emergency if we're too busy slamming the brake pedal in to make the car stop? The release is closer to the steering wheel in the pic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 Anyone have a good writeup on making your own CAI on a L67 motor?? The K&N and Wizzaird intakes are a bit on the expensive side for what they are. Here's what I came up with, not the best photo but it was all I could find. A 45* bend, and 2 pieces of 4" tubing with rubber couplers mated to a K&N. I got it for cheap when my buddy worked for NAPA, but probably $50 or so total? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booba Posted May 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 I've never seen a Camaro at a JY, well, one with dual piston brakes at least. That's why I said that. It DOES seem like everyone in Missouri that owned car with 12 inch brakes changed the brake and rotors, then drove it to the junkyard and scrapped it. A friend of mine and I have gotten 4 full sets of 12 inch rotor stuff (he even kept the pads, but I bought new ones). We just hot tanked the rotors and had them turned. I ended up getting my 12 inch brake upgrade completed for like $50 (IIRC, it was a year ago). On the bolts, I've always read that you have to retap the caliper brackets to get them to bolt up to the 2nd gen knuckle. In reading for this thread, I ran across another thread that said that is the GM part number for bolts that will allow the caliper bracket to bolt directly to the knuckle with no problems. If that is true? I don't know. We'll find out if I can ever find what I need at a JY. It's hard to justify buying all that stuff for new brakes when I have new 12 inch brakes already. It would be nice though! I haven't heard of the heater core hose blowing off. I'm sure it happens on occasion, but it's not a frequent occurrence. I do have aluminum coolant elbows, but that is a fantastic suggestion, I totally forgot about it. They are still pretty fragile though so becareful if you ever have to remove them. Still, it's beeter to brake the elbows than the timing cover! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Escobar Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 I've never seen a Camaro at a JY, well, one with dual piston brakes at least. That's why I said that. It DOES seem like everyone in Missouri that owned car with 12 inch brakes changed the brake and rotors, then drove it to the junkyard and scrapped it. A friend of mine and I have gotten 4 full sets of 12 inch rotor stuff (he even kept the pads, but I bought new ones). We just hot tanked the rotors and had them turned. I ended up getting my 12 inch brake upgrade completed for like $50 (IIRC, it was a year ago). All Camaro's are dual piston. The caliper for the Camaro is extremely big. Also, I forgot to mention this in my last post, but the caliper doesn't have to be from 98-02. 93-02 all interchange in the front, BUT the Camaro got a smaller center bore in 1998. It's more of a Camaro thing, but I thought you should know. I haven't heard of the heater core hose blowing off. I'm sure it happens on occasion, but it's not a frequent occurrence. This might be a Camaro specific thing. I just wanted to point it out though. I think the clips screw on in the W's but on the Camaro, they're twist and pop off, which under high pressure (read: burnouts) they will come off. I do have aluminum coolant elbows, but that is a fantastic suggestion, I totally forgot about it. They are still pretty fragile though so becareful if you ever have to remove them. Still, it's beeter to brake the elbows than the timing cover! Agreed, but at least the metal would be a bit more hard to break than those plastic ones that are known to break. This one might be an Impala/Monte Carlo and Camaro thing though, since it's mostly heard of in those cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booba Posted May 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 I'll clarify, there's nothing at my "local" (60 miles away...I love living in the country) JYs with dual pistons. There are some Camaros (or what look like they used to be Camaros) with single pistons. I always thought they were Pre-98s, so they didn't have the better brakes. Unless the rotor is in pretty bad shape I'd probably take it and reuse it, I can always get them turned. Yea, the aluminum elbows won't break under pressure\heat\flex\dryrot. They'll only break when you are taking it apart. Literally the ONLY weakness is the O-rings, but there's no way to do away with those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l67ss Posted May 8, 2014 Report Share Posted May 8, 2014 then i could add corvette to my cars parts donor list The Grand Am/Alero guys acutally upgrade Gen 3 GXP rear brakes, though not as common as the F body upgrade. I've also heard of the C5 Vette's rear caliper fitting on the Grand Am as well. You should look into that, that way you can go back to having an E brake and do a 12" rotor back there as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2k2cse Posted May 9, 2014 Report Share Posted May 9, 2014 The gen 3 impala uses a dual piston caliper. I swapped a set in my car. I would imagine they would fit in a 2nd gen just as easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Escobar Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 Why have a normal dual piston when you can have this beefy caliper right here? They say for the N bodies, the swap is a night and day difference. That slamming on the brakes will literally sit the car down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 Will a Gen III caliper fit a Gen I? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharged400sbc Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 no but if you splice the 2nd gen outter arm onto the 1st gen LCA inner, you can switch to G2/3 knuckles/struts/axles/brakes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharged400sbc Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 looks like nas reads my posts lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 no but if you splice the 2nd gen outter arm onto the 1st gen LCA inner, you can switch to G2/3 knuckles/struts/axles/brakes So you mean literally cut the Gen II and Gen I A-Arms and weld together? Gen II Knuckles look like they would fit a Gen I as they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l67ss Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 So you mean literally cut the Gen II and Gen I A-Arms and weld together? Gen II Knuckles look like they would fit a Gen I as they are. already tried that, they have one funky bushing rotated compared to gen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 And we cannot run the Gen II spindle because there is no provision for stabilizer bar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l67ss Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 You can drill the lca for the sway. Also, i misread ur earlier post. They inverted the balljoint on gen two ws. Also tie rod is different but i already solved the rod end issue. Take a stock gen 2 tie rod and cut about an inch off the threaded end. Simple And we cannot run the Gen II spindle because there is no provision for stabilizer bar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted May 10, 2014 Report Share Posted May 10, 2014 Ah! Who needs ball joints anyways! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Escobar Posted May 11, 2014 Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 looks like nas reads my posts lol I tend to read everybody's posts. I search things when I'm bored instead of just posting random questions for things I won't do until 2 or 3 months later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 9, 2014 Report Share Posted July 9, 2014 Regals(98-04) have a 13.2:1 ratio, as do 00-05 montes. Regals have mag steer, montes dont. As long as you get 98+ mag racks you dont need to wire it. For reference, 95-99 monte/luminas have 14.5:1, 97+ gps have variable rates of 15.3:1-17.?:1. To use the gen 2 rack in a gen 1 you just use gen 1 outter tie rods And for comparision what are the ratios for the TGP and '94 Cutlass supreme? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDN Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 Just wanted to ask, since I'm still a bit confused on the whole gen 1.5/gen 2 thing. Will the 12" front rotor upgrade work for a 99 lumina? I'm headed to the yards this week after some monte seats (thanks for putting that thought in my head l67ss) and figured it couldn't hurt to have a look for the parts for the brakes. Thanks in advanced ~R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l67ss Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 Just wanted to ask, since I'm still a bit confused on the whole gen 1.5/gen 2 thing. Will the 12" front rotor upgrade work for a 99 lumina? I'm headed to the yards this week after some monte seats (thanks for putting that thought in my head l67ss) and figured it couldn't hurt to have a look for the parts for the brakes. Thanks in advanced ~R nope gen 2 fronts arent even close to fitting, trust me i tried lol. gen 2 rear brakes, however, are a direct fit with the gen 2 spindles. you just need the rubber lines from a 1990 euro(possibly other year donors but thats what i used). the gen 2 rears are def worth swapping to, theyre in the top 5 of my fav mods on my car. and ur welcome on me planting seat ideas, wont regret those 00-05 monte seats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l67ss Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 And for comparision what are the ratios for the TGP and '94 Cutlass supreme? no idea lol, i figure itd b faster than the 94 cutty. unsure on tgps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 A gal at work has a '01 Monte SS supercharged and lock to lock is 2'1/4 turns on the car. My '94 Cutlas vert is 2 3/4 turns lock to lock on the car. FWIW You talked me into it so I bought a '01 Monte rack, I'll see how it does. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 Oh, and O'Reilly's shows the TGP rack mounting holes have a different spacing and will not fit a '94 Cutlass. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l67ss Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 Oh, and O'Reilly's shows the TGP rack mounting holes have a different spacing and will not fit a '94 Cutlass. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk thats odd.....ive heard of peops using tgp racks in l8er 1st gens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l67ss Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 A gal at work has a '01 Monte SS supercharged and lock to lock is 2'1/4 turns on the car.My '94 Cutlas vert is 2 3/4 turns lock to lock on the car. FWIW You talked me into it so I bought a '01 Monte rack, I'll see how it does. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk you get the matching ps hoses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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