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Elias1552

Oil?

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i will gladly contribute exactly $1 towards a UOA of a LH0 running on any oil for 40K miles.

 

however, i would want irrefutable proof that it is actually that 40K mile oil getting sent to the lab.

 

Hence lies the problem, how exactly is such 'irrefutable proof' supposed to be offered?

 

i've heard of an engine or two that has done 60K miles without an oil change, they just kept adding oil when a low oil light came on, but they were in absolute shit shape by the end of it.

 

I keep it right at the full mark, checking it basically once a month or two and adding a little bit as necessary.

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not sure..... if the UOA came back with anything other than extremely elevated levels of lead, iron and copper, i can't think of any way of definitely determining the age and use of an oil.

 

Well, I bought all the oil that I use back in 2004, from the same batch, so one could test a virgin sample, and then extrapolate based on TAN, TBN, insolubles, etc. Picked up 16L (4x4L) + 12L (12x1L) at the time, for a total of 28L.

 

I actually stopped changing oil because someone on Bobistheoilguy, in a fleet setting (long-distance contracted crew taxi driving for a railway), did the same with a 3400 engine in a Pontiac Montana minivan, the same 60-degree V6 that the 3.1L MPFI is based upon. And found that, despite repeated UOA's, the oil was not wearing out or even being rendered unfit for service.

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yet, lots of other BITOG members with 60V6 engines have been doing UOAs as well and seeing a definitive end of oil life point..... either acids and insolubles building up to the point of overcoming the oil's additive package or it getting sheared/boiled out of its viscosity range. insolubles could be dealt with via a new filter, but the VII getting cut down or baked and the acids buildup can't be easily overcome without either somehow adding more base additives and VII to the oil.

 

happen to remember the member's name, or a thread title or ???

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I'm going from memory, because Cutlass is at home, and I'm in Alaska, but I generally use 5-30 Castrol GTX in the Cutlass, changed every 3-4k, along with the filter.I'm just under 240,000 miles now on the LQ1, and am pretty surprised at the lack of ugly noises coming from the engine. It does use around a quart every 1500 miles or so, which I suspect is valve guides, and a small amount of oil finding it's way past the rings. The only time I see smoke is when it's been sitting for several days--about 15-20 seconds of fairly light blue smoke, then it clears, and doesn't do it again.

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yet, lots of other BITOG members with 60V6 engines have been doing UOAs as well and seeing a definitive end of oil life point.....

 

Not from what I've seen, with the high quality synthetics. Of course, they might have a rather conservative set of oil condemnation parameters, ie: wear metals.

 

either acids and insolubles building up to the point of overcoming the oil's additive package or it getting sheared/boiled out of its viscosity range. insolubles could be dealt with via a new filter, but the VII getting cut down or baked and the acids buildup can't be easily overcome without either somehow adding more base additives and VII to the oil.

 

VII isn't an issue with the synthetics (they use high VI base oils), and at least the oil I run (Esso XD-3 0W-30) started out with a very high TBN as it was designed primarily for diesel engines. Unfortunately in amidst the Exxon-Mobil merger of product lines, the product was discontinued so I can't obtain any more of it.

 

 

happen to remember the member's name, or a thread title or ???

 

The username was Olympic or cypress I believe.

 

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/241146/1

 

Is the thread referred to, and I use the identical oil and stockpiled it accordingly. After 40,000km, the oil still had tons of service life left based on the UOA.

Edited by pitzel

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hmm..... he's running a rather impressive bypass filter and apparently going 20,000km(~12,500 miles) between main filter changes. that's also over a period of only two months as well.... that's a lot different than 40,000 miles and 6 years. do you happen to be running a bypass filter?

 

it looks like the oil has thickened up some, not sheared down.... it's actually a light 40 weight now at 13.1(12.5-16.3), with 9.3-12.5 being a 30, it started off at the top of that range(12.1).

 

TAN had crept up to 5.36 with TBN down to 8.24....

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I'm aware of the viscosity aspects of oil. My question was with the engine, and it's tolerance to the thicker oil

 

missed this post. ran 10w40 first time I changed the oil and had lifter clatter till I dropped to 10w30 and it went away :)

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Something that hasn't yet been asked of Pitzel yet: Is that 40,000 kilometers(25,000 miles)?

 

 

Either way, I wouldn't be running any super extended oil changes without some lab testing just to be on the safe side.

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hmm..... he's running a rather impressive bypass filter and apparently going 20,000km(~12,500 miles) between main filter changes. that's also over a period of only two months as well.... that's a lot different than 40,000 miles and 6 years. do you happen to be running a bypass filter?

 

No bypass filter. Full flows do just fine.

 

it looks like the oil has thickened up some, not sheared down.... it's actually a light 40 weight now at 13.1(12.5-16.3), with 9.3-12.5 being a 30, it started off at the top of that range(12.1).

 

Exactly, because the base-stocks of that particular oil were of such high quality that they didn't use any viscosity index improvers (ie: thickeners) to meet spec.

 

 

TAN had crept up to 5.36 with TBN down to 8.24....

 

Yeah, plenty of life left.

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Something that hasn't yet been asked of Pitzel yet: Is that 40,000 kilometers(25,000 miles)?

 

At this point, 40,000 miles / 64k km's. Changed at 158k km's, now have 218k on it. Okay, technically 60k km's, not 64k. Close enough. Its gone a freakin' long time without an oil change and there's nothing to indicate that it actually needs one.

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Just an update, now 257.4k km's on the engine, and oil hasn't been changed since 162k (km's).  So almost nearly 100k km's (60k miles) since last oil change.

Valve covers were removed last summer, looks pristine under there.  Changed the oil pan gasket (and yes, saved and added the same motor oil back into the engine) at ~220k, pristine again.   

Was able to obtain the Esso XD-3 0W-30 successor, Mobil Delvac Elite 222 0W-30. (bought 60L of it in 20L pails, so there's no possibility of ever running out!).   Its a HDEO so that's good for the flat tappet engines these 3.1L MPFI (LH0)'s are.  My cold start problem, which I thought was an artifact of viscosity thickening, was actually relating to the spark plugs (apparently the Platinum plugs really aren't 100k mile plugs!).  Still have ~5L of the original (2004-purchased) XD-3 which I'll use before converting over.  I think I've done well motoring for 100k miles on a mere 20L of motor oil total, most of which ended up on the ground due to leaking.

Edited by pitzel

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