Pitts Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Looking to upgrade my brake lines to steel braided lines. I know a couple places will make them custom for your application, but I want to save a little bit of money. The main issue I have is are the 94-96 GP brake lines a 3 or 4 AN? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schurkey Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) Define "brake lines". Keep in mind that "line" is an extremely imprecise word; and that mostly it means an imaginary object in Geometry--shortest distance between two points. If you're mis-using the term "lines" to mean "steel tubes", then replacing steel tubing with steel-braid-over-Teflon hoses is crazy. If you're mis-using the term "lines" to mean "rubber-covered hoses", then installing the steel-braid-over-Teflon hoses can be a nice upgrade. At the point where I did the front hoses of my '93, I had to invent a suitable hose and adapter system. I think at this point there are kits available. Every automotive application I'm aware of uses -3 for fluid transfer to a single wheel, and -4 for fluid transfer to a pair of wheels. Since the Luminas I've dealt with have individual brake hoses at each corner, -3 is fine. I bought a kit for a RWD vehicle that use a single hose at the rear axle to feed both rear brakes, and the boneheads built THAT out of -3 hose, too. They should have used -4, as the tubing it connected to is 1/4". I bitched about it, but they (Edelbrock-Russel) had no interest in making it right. It works adequately. Beware of cheap-junk Chinese brake hoses no matter what materials they're claiming to be built from. Front brake hoses, '93 Lumina Euro 3.4: Edited January 24, 2014 by Schurkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitts Posted January 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 While you went a little overkill on the answer, thanks for helping me out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jman093 Posted January 25, 2014 Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) I bought some Goodridge lines for the GTP. I was looking around for a catalog to get you the part number, but can't find one. I know they're out there. I think it was around $120 for the full set of lines. I've been needing to get some for the vette. The cheap hoses GM used are known to blow out under hard driving conditions. Edit: Looks like part number is 12237. $117 Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B004VPOX2Q/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1390638766&sr=8-1&keywords=goodridge+12237&condition=new Edited January 25, 2014 by jman093 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted January 25, 2014 Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 anybody here needs a custom brake line made here PM me. I can get them made in town here and tested to 3000 psi on a machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitts Posted January 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 I know I can get the Goodridge lines for about $120. But if I can save $20, I will simply so I can add to my powdercoating fund (black chrome on first gens). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted January 25, 2014 Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 powder chrome first gen? 20$ what you lost me.. first off, goodridge don't fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitts Posted January 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) powder chrome first gen? 20$ what you lost me.. first off, goodridge don't fit. $20 to the fund to have them powder coated. I'm looking about $300 to have them powder coated. And whether or not they fit for my application doesn't matter due to the fact that I will piece together my own kit. This is what black chrome powder coating looks like: http://powder365.com/store/images/p174_img_002.JPG Edited January 25, 2014 by Pitts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 ok well if you are willing to spend a bit more then you can get them made and they will stay looking good with the extra plastic jacket protecting the steel layer. sounds like the wheels looking good, you would like to show them off behind those spokes anyway. and the goodridge ones are thin and not much to look at. check these out, I paid like $40 a piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 powder chrome first gen? 20$ what you lost me.. first off, goodridge don't fit. I have Goodridge SS brake lines on my car. Fit like a glove. Been on there for about 5-6yrs or so, if I had to guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jman093 Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 I have Goodridge SS brake lines on my car. Fit like a glove. Been on there for about 5-6yrs or so, if I had to guess. x2, they fit perfectly on my GTP as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 I have the Goodridge lines on my Z34, work perfectly, even with the 94+ rear brakes. Had em on for 4-5 years now. I fully intend on getting a second set for my TGP. Basically, everyone wants to save money... don't save it on brakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitts Posted January 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 I have the Goodridge lines on my Z34, work perfectly, even with the 94+ rear brakes. Had em on for 4-5 years now. I fully intend on getting a second set for my TGP. Basically, everyone wants to save money... don't save it on brakes. I hear you there. I want to put something together that is quality obviously, but I also want to do it at the best price. Just gotta shop around a bit still. If the price of a pieced together set breaks $100, I might just go with Goodridge anyways simply for the fact of having a warranty (I live in Montana, I need warranties) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 I balled up the warrantee and tossed it. they are good enough for semis going coast to coast year round but installed on a passenger car. I will be having my trans lines rebuilt there pretty soon as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitts Posted January 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Well I ended up buying the Goodridge kit. I also got some carbon metallic front pads and evolution ceramic pads for the rear. Slotted and drilled rotors next check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schurkey Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Slotted and drilled rotors next check. Do you understand that virtually all "slotted/drilled" rotors are just generic white-box Communist Chinese $10 rotors that have been thrown on a milling machine, and then put into a fancy cardboard box with a much-higher price tag? They don't stop the car any better than the plain rotors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitts Posted February 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 Do you understand that virtually all "slotted/drilled" rotors are just generic white-box Communist Chinese $10 rotors that have been thrown on a milling machine, and then put into a fancy cardboard box with a much-higher price tag? They don't stop the car any better than the plain rotors. But they disperse heat better and cool sown quicker. Which helps prevent warping. And not all are "communist Chinese." Going some random brand that no one has heard of is obviously cheap and worthless. But some companies actually start with a quality product. If I really wanted to spend $300 in rotors, I would buy performance AC Delcos and mill them myself. But why when I can go from a reputable conpany and spend $250? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutlass350 Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) But they disperse heat better and cool sown quicker. Which helps prevent warping. FWIW, not by a longshot. Drilled and slotted rotors INCREASE the stopping distance compared to a similar sized rotor. There are real reasons why real race cars use drilled or slotted rotors. And, then there are the GA-ZILLON ricer reasons why race cars use drilled and/or slotted rotors. Also, real race-car spec drilled and slotted rotors would be foolish/stupid to use on the street. And, your street pads would last about 30-300miles. Heck, even the head of Vette development admitted that they went to the "fancy" looking rotors just for looks even though it REDUCED braking ability. Then again, with a Vette, "reduced" braking ability means that the brakes are the limiting factor (assuming new/good stock tires) at speeds above ~75MPH. Below that, it's the tires. So, "reducing" braking ability to have better looking disks on the Vette is something even I can agree with. If you want slotted or drilled disk for looks, that your choice. But when people say they went to slotted or drilled disks "for performance", realize that people that know about really know braking, performance handling, race car prep and reasons, are going to be snikering or laughing at that comment. Just an FYI. FWIW, there are books that Amazon sells on braking, race car prep, handling, AutoX, etc. Get the books with the newer publish dates. Be very careful about ANY car mod read on the interweb. Imho, 90% of the time, it's a 110% ricer mod (actually reduces performance). Opps, goota go. I'm going to lower my car 18 inches so that it'll handle like it's on rails. Bump steer, suspension geometry, etc. All BS!!! I read on the interweb says lowering a car (any amount) makes it handle better. So, screw my years of college education in mechanical and systems engineering! Plus, my super mega calibrated butt-meter (like all of the ricers have), tells me that my car will handle 10times better! I'll be pulling 30Gs around the corners with no problem at all! The interweb knows all! Edited February 2, 2014 by Cutlass350 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jman093 Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 I would personally stay away from the drilled rotors. OE's will sometimes use drilling for the aesthetics. For example I think factory Brembos are sometimes drilled in some applications, but they are usually slotted. Real racing brakes are almost always slotted (or just plain) like these C6R brakes (Corvettes aren't allowed to use their factory carbon ceramic brakes): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitts Posted February 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 FWIW, not by a longshot. Drilled and slotted rotors INCREASE the stopping distance compared to a similar sized rotor. There are real reasons why real race cars use drilled or slotted rotors. And, then there are the GA-ZILLON ricer reasons why race cars use drilled and/or slotted rotors. Also, real race-car spec drilled and slotted rotors would be foolish/stupid to use on the street. And, your street pads would last about 30-300miles. Heck, even the head of Vette development admitted that they went to the "fancy" looking rotors just for looks even though it REDUCED braking ability. Then again, with a Vette, "reduced" braking ability means that the brakes are the limiting factor (assuming new/good stock tires) at speeds above ~75MPH. Below that, it's the tires. So, "reducing" braking ability to have better looking disks on the Vette is something even I can agree with. If you want slotted or drilled disk for looks, that your choice. But when people say they went to slotted or drilled disks "for performance", realize that people that know about really know braking, performance handling, race car prep and reasons, are going to be snikering or laughing at that comment. Just an FYI. FWIW, there are books that Amazon sells on braking, race car prep, handling, AutoX, etc. Get the books with the newer publish dates. Be very careful about ANY car mod read on the interweb. Imho, 90% of the time, it's a 110% ricer mod (actually reduces performance). Opps, goota go. I'm going to lower my car 18 inches so that it'll handle like it's on rails. Bump steer, suspension geometry, etc. All BS!!! I read on the interweb says lowering a car (any amount) makes it handle better. So, screw my years of college education in mechanical and systems engineering! Plus, my super mega calibrated butt-meter (like all of the ricers have), tells me that my car will handle 10times better! I'll be pulling 30Gs around the corners with no problem at all! The interweb knows all! I love how you quote me when I never said they help stop better. I only said they cool down quicker. They only cool down quicker because they breathe better. If I wanted to stop faster, the first thing I'd do is upgrade the master cylinder. As for better handling, that is suspension and chassis work obviously. Lowering has some aerodynamic benefits if done PROPERLY. However, most people just lower for aesthetics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutlass350 Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) I only said they cool down quicker. They only cool down quicker because they breathe better. They do not cool down quicker. Again, in fact, they take longer to cool. The rate at which they cool is proportional to the exposed area. Note, that there are many other factors. Also, mass and heat distribution effect the rate at which rotors cool. Holes were done for weight savings - very simple. And, for only a very limited class/type of race car. Huge disks, huge pads, huge calipers are often used on real race cars. They also have real functional brake cooling ducts. The cars also don't sit at stop lights or drive 10mph in traffic. And, again, don't forget about the aerodynamics that effect the brake cooling. Also, today, it's rare for a real race car to use drilled rotors - the risk of heat risers and rotor failure is too high. So, holes in disks for any street car, and for semi-professionals are for looks only. For over a dozen years, there have been many many tests by people that have race only/race-oriented cars. It's not hard. Find a manufacture that makes disks with holes and no holes, go to an event, take heat readings. Swap disks, try again. For people that spend $20-$60K+ on mods for their race/handling cars to do events, doing something like rotor testing is cheap and trivial. About Slots: In real race cars, slots are used to always cut off pad surface. That's because other cars can (and often do) puke their guts (water, oil) on the track. The still active driver will ride/pulse the brake to clean off any contamination that got on the pads or disks. Lowering has some aerodynamic benefits if done PROPERLY. However, most people just lower for aesthetics. I agree that most people lower it for looks. The aerodynamic benefits are questionable at best on any production car. The front air dam and rear wing must be properly designed for the car. Also, for many newer cars, there isn't much air that goes under the car anymore. The aerodynamic noses, and wind tunnel testing has taken care of that. Imho, the Vette and it's suspension is one of the best (and also often analyzed) production very low "real life daily driver 49-State" cars around. If people want to lower their car for looks, or use slotted/drilled rotors for looks, that is their choice and their money. For me, I get very PO'd when people get lied to and screwed/taken by companies that promise a "performance increase". If people want to use magnetic fuel line filters to get "aligned and charged particles in their fuel" to increase HP and MPG, and want/need to believe that pure BS, that is their choice. For everyone else (imho, the 99.9% of the population), people like me will keep trying to save people money and time. Imho, today, I very often see wrong answers give in tech, especially for any mod at all. Imho, it's often hopeless to get real/correct information out there. People want to read "put mod on car, get better performance" - period. Imho, if people think their car was engineered and designed by a bunch of monkeys, then why the ******* would they even think of driving/owning a POS car like that?? There are many tradeoffs done for cost and general appeal. However, imho, there are very few real performance mods out there that are not from another production car. And, very few people pay $3K+ just to get something like better braking from an aftermarket company. It's your money, your time, and your car. I'm just trying to make sure you have a view from someone that has done structural analysis (a while back, when mammoths roamed the earth ) and thermodynamics professionally. I'm mainly electro-mechanical now. Fwiw, many electronics do still generate heat that needs to be dealt with. :-P Edited February 8, 2014 by Cutlass350 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitts Posted February 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 I'm not going to even attempt to prove anything. I'm just going to get plain rotors and get everything on the GP so I can sell it. I've been hit with an offer that has been to good to pass up. My friend is selling his 5.0 swapped 240sx (engine is currently out) for $1k. It was a texas car all it's life, so rust should be non-exhistant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schurkey Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 They do not cool down quicker... Thank you. You are kinder and gentler than I would be; and that's probably a good thing. The single thing I'm going to say about the benefits of slotted/drilled rotors involves racing of the sort that makes the rotors glow from heat (i.e., top level road racing, fifty+ years ago when the rotors were flat-out too damn small for the energy they were expected to dissapate.) The slots and holes in the rotor were supposedly to allow the overheated pads (which, in the process of baking from heavy contact with the rotor, would produce gasses the way a baked potato or apple pie will vent steam in the oven) to vent the gasses through to the interior of the rotor (holes) or directly tangential to the rotor (slots). If you aren't heating the pads to the point that they outgas... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_e777 Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 Thank you. You are kinder and gentler than I would be; and that's probably a good thing. Don't go all Ricky Lake just yet, sometimes the brutal truth is best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schurkey Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 Don't go all Ricky Lake just yet, sometimes the brutal truth is best. That would mean more to me if I had ever seen a movie that Ricki Lake had been in. I might have seen her talk show, once, while waiting for a tire puncture repair--but I might be confusing her with Rachel Ray. Anyway, point taken. I'll not change my signature line just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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