Senor PuffPuff Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 Hey, just a quick question - anyone else noticed that the 3400 cars seem to have more power than the 3800 cars? I was just thinking about my 3400 impala today, and remembered how easy it was to spin the wheels on it whereas my 3800 Impala basically doesn't get any wheelspin at all. Of course, the 3400 had stock tires and my 3800 has Pirelli P4's, but doesn't the 3800 produce more torque? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 engine torque X final gear ratio X current trans gear's ratio X torque converter multiplication factor - trans efficiency losses = effective torque at the wheels. 3400 = 205 X 2.86 X 2.92 X ???? = 1,712lb-ft in 1st gear, without torque converter multiplication accounted for. 3800 = 230 X 3.05 X 2.92 X ???? = 2,048lb-ft in 1st gear, ........ now, the 3400 has a fairly high stalling converter(and thus, higher multiplication ratio), especially compared to the 3800 converters. this may make up for it, though the 3800 cars may have more torque management and are artificially weak because of it. would have to remove that from being possible too. in any case, wheel/tire and brake disk weight are all relevant as well, and of course, tire traction coefficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 also, burnouts with a 4T6x based transmission = differential death. if you have a limited slip unit, different story, but even the HD diffs aren't that great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l67ss Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 Listen to this guy, reverend saar. Seriously, he knows his @#$& also, burnouts with a 4T6x based transmission = differential death. if you have a limited slip unit, different story, but even the HD diffs aren't that great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 http://www.thrashercharged.com/tech_htm/differential.shtm this actually outlines the process of turning a 4T60/65 into a core charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alec_b Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 So.... you're saying the 1st->2nd gear 50 foot one wheel wonder I did with the Impala the other day was BAD for it? With only 157k miles on it and an already slipping 1-2 up shift and 2-1 downshift bang? Whoops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_s95 Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 So.... you're saying the 1st->2nd gear 50 foot one wheel wonder I did with the Impala the other day was BAD for it? With only 157k miles on it and an already slipping 1-2 up shift and 2-1 downshift bang? Whoops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitallyphoenix Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 the DOHC's never came close stock for stock against the SC gtp. I had a very heavily modded DOHC in my Z34. with lots of porting, gear swap, exhaust and countless hours of tuning I managed a 14.81 1/4 mile and prob could have squeezed a 14.7 out of her. in comparison after swapping to a L36 with just headers, HV3, and tuning i put down a 14.9 with a full trunk of tools, sub, and spare tire. the extra weight was at least 100 lbs or more. which means i could have shaved another 10th off that time and tie my DOHC's best run. the average stock DOHC runs 15.5-15.7 the average GTP runs 14.7-15.0. when you compare the Z34's they run nearly identical 1/4 mile time from the 96 w/ DOHC to 98 with the L36. the DOHC had a higher trap but lower 60'. I agree that the 60* engines do sound better. My DOHC sounded heavenly. but my 3800 doesn't sound bad at all either. reliability... the 3800 is rock solid even lightly modded and is easy to work on. the DOHC is known to be a pain and the 3400 just like the 3100 have the leaky lower intake that can be costly to repair. Bottom line is yes the 3800 is old tech so are the LS1,2,3! But it works. Back on topic. like said gearing makes a big diff. I know cause the gear swap i did on my DOHC did wonders for it. I could basically match a GTP off the line after that swap. Once in my powerband it would start pulling away. I have never really spent much time looking at tq managment on 3400's but i know both the l36 and lq1/DOHC have a lot to restrict the power. it is possible with the weaker engine they didnt put as much tq mgt on cause they didnt make the power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 i still find it hilarious that GM strapped a blower on a 205HP engine, fed the engine ~7PSI or so, and only made an extra 35HP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxie500XL Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 Actually, the design is far older. It was introduced in 1962, sold to Jeep in 1967, then GM bought the production equipment BACK from Jeep after the Arab Oil embargo, and GM began putting them in cars as the "231 V-6", in '75 or '76. I personally think the 3800 is over rated. It has been proven for many years but the design is da!mn near 20 years old. They couldn’t get any more power out of it so they strapped on a blower, Witch put the GTP up there but don’t forget that the last generation GTP with the 3.4DOHC was almost a fast. I would rather stick my 3400 and SC it. Plus you CANT Beat the sound of the 3400 :thumbs: That’s just my opinion though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS009 Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 i still find it hilarious that GM strapped a blower on a 205HP engine, fed the engine ~7PSI or so, and only made an extra 35HP. Don't forget, they reduced the compression ratio too so they could use a little more boost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 dropping nearly 1 point of compression to try and make it back via higher manifold pressure is old-school thinking. it may work, but it is an unnecessary compromise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 I got more than 35hp from the cam I just put in my car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 Both good engines, both have their own set of problems and advantages. People have gotten good power from both of them. But are either of them serious platforms for performance, no. Yeah the 3800 is old, but the 60*v6 ain't no spring chicken either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyalRegal Posted December 30, 2013 Report Share Posted December 30, 2013 (edited) I would also think that the weight difference between a 60 degree and a 90 degree is a factor in terms of traction. More weight at the front wheels= more traction= less tire spin. I do love the sound of a 3.4 (I had a U body van with one), but nothing beats the sound of my 3.8 catLESS exhaust! Edited December 30, 2013 by RoyalRegal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Anybody else find it fishy that 3 different members posted the same exact post in this thread and they all have a link to some sort of reviews on their post down low? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Well, what do you know! Here's that same exact post on another board, 3rd one down! http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-8841.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intern8tion9l Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 What the? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Cut some of the words from other posts they've made and plug them in to Yahoo, I found where they took other posts from. All of them have exactly 10 posts too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Escobar Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Damn, what's up with the spammers? Anyways, is getting a limited slip on a 4T60 even worth it? I mean how do you even do a burnout on a FWD car? I know the same principal (foot on brake and pedal) aren't true as for RWD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 I tested a LSD on a 4t60 it got good posi grip. I am about to get it torn down for a quick inspection since I have it out of the car. I am getting trans lines rebuilt and everything this time. and make sure the locker isn't all torn up or something before I throw even more power at the poor thing. they don't necessarily like all the torque, the 4t60 has a smaller diff than a 4t65-e, but you can do a number 11 and I have drawn those on the ground no problem in my black tgp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 a posi isn't just for burnouts... time spent spinning your tires is time spent not moving forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Haha Sent from my iPhone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxie500XL Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 I used to use that knowledge to great success against Mustangs when I had my Galaxie...the Mustangs were faster IF you knew how to launch them. However, that poor rear axle setup that Ford used for decades meant while the Mustangs were smoking off the line, I was outrunning them. Usually, at the next light, they'd light them up even worse...which meant I outran them just that much more from light to light. a posi isn't just for burnouts... time spent spinning your tires is time spent not moving forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Escobar Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 a posi isn't just for burnouts... time spent spinning your tires is time spent not moving forward. I know. I want to convert my Camaro to posi. I noticed if I sit the car and burn out I end up doing one wheel wonders, but that also means I may be wasting time when I floor it on the interstate or just wanna quick launch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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