3800/L67 swap questions

[topless94style2]

I have both sets of fans, I think I'll go the OBD2 route. Either repin or get a set of Intrigue fans.

[rich17]

The 3400 trans would've had different stall speed torque converter too? According to gm tuner website

I had to run a 3800 torgue converter because IIRC the bolt patern is different on the 3800 flywheel

[Quaraxkad]

Two more questions!

 

I've seen mention in one (or more?) of the L67 swap guides that the 1997 Grand Prix is an oddball year, quote: "the 97s are an oddball year with screwy wiring and crack prone heads (as are some early 98s)". Is any of the wiring difference important in the swap, since I'm not using the wiring harness anyway? And is there really a difference in the heads that makes the 97's more likely to crack, or is it just unsupported anecdotal evidence?

 

There is a possible donor in my area for a good price, and I'd like to know what issues I could run into if I bought it. It's on craigslist, the ad says "has a knock", what are some common causes of that in the 3800?

[rich17]

97 gps are that bastard childs of 2nd gen wbodies. But I have never hear of a head problem. If you're using a 98-99 L36 wiring harness than you dont have to worry about what year the motor comes from for the most part

[White93z34]

might get lucky and be a busted flexplate, but I'd stay away from a high mile broken powertrain. Also I don't care what anyone says, 1997s are not that much different. The transmission has a few year specific parts, but that is about all I can think of. Oh and the vacuum routing is slightly different if you still have the original blower. I've worked on several 97s and the differences are minor at best from 98+

[Addicted to eaton]

might get lucky and be a busted flexplate, but I'd stay away from a high mile broken powertrain. Also I don't care what anyone says, 1997s are not that much different. The transmission has a few year specific parts, but that is about all I can think of. Oh and the vacuum routing is slightly different if you still have the original blower. I've worked on several 97s and the differences are minor at best from 98+

 

97's diffrenced

 

a few sensors.

blower (one vac port) can be changed

abs controller

the over flow tank

washer tank

alternator bracket

[Quaraxkad]

might get lucky and be a busted flexplate, but I'd stay away from a high mile broken powertrain. Also I don't care what anyone says, 1997s are not that much different. The transmission has a few year specific parts, but that is about all I can think of. Oh and the vacuum routing is slightly different if you still have the original blower. I've worked on several 97s and the differences are minor at best from 98+

 

The description did say he thinks it could be the flexplate. I'm still waiting on a reply from the seller for more details, he didn't leave any contact info so I can only email.

 

97's diffrenced

 

a few sensors.

blower (one vac port) can be changed

abs controller

the over flow tank

washer tank

alternator bracket

 

Is this specific to the 97 Grand Prix, or would it be all the same if I found a 97 Regal donor as well? Are the sensors different in that they won't work for the swap, or just need new connectors on my harness, re-pins, etc? My Cutlass doesn't have ABS, so I guess that difference won't matter for me. As for the overflow and washer tank, is there some reason why the Cutlass tanks won't work? I've seen it mentioned in the guides that you need a different coolant overflow tank but I haven't seen any mention of why and the pictures don't seem to have anything obstructing where my existing tank sits. I have also heard that some 98's are the same as the 97's, is there a tell-tale sign that I'd be able to look for and know which is which if I should happen to come across a 98 at the junkyard?

[White93z34]

ABS does not matter. not even a little bit. Its not part of the engine harness.

 

any sensors and I can only guess that the coolant temp sensor is different, but regardless even if there are a few different ones it can be easially sorted out by obtaining the ones for your year harness.

 

For reference: I am running a 2000 Bonneville L67 in my 1997 Bonneville. Brackets were different, swapped them over to the new engine where needed. I think the coolant temp sensor was different(I changed it to 1997 style so my stock harness would work with it), the MAP plug is different, and there is no BCS wiring. you can easily extend and change the map plug to work, its what I did. you can run the BBV on vacuum and eliminate the solenoid, either way its not too difficult to wire it in with a harness Casper's sells. There are minor differences between a bunch of the years, they are all fairly minor differences that can be overcome fairly easy.

[Quaraxkad]

Bumping this old thread yet again, rather than start a new one! I finally found an engine and trans at my local junkyard. It turned out to be no good (details in my build thread: Quaraxkad's 92 Cutlass L67 Swap finally begins!). So I am taking this engine and trans back to the junkyard for a refund.

 

But, if I were to take off the w-body specific mounts, could I widen my search for a donor to include the Bonneville SSEi, Impala SS, Monte Carlo SS, etc? We had mentioned the difference with non w-body engines earlier in this thread, but I want to confirm all of the different parts and see if it's possible/feasible/worth the effort. If I've got the mounts and I'm now able to use *any* L67 as a donor, it should take me a whole lot less than the 6 months it took to find the first one.

[95 vert]

Lower motor mount and bracket, Icm bracket, driver side dogbone bracket and Oil filter adapter. You may also need to swap the Alternator bracket

depending on which H body L67 you get.

These are what I can think of that you'd need to swap an H body L67 to a W body. If you get a H body L67 with an aluminum oil pan, you would need to

swap to the steel pan for the lower W mount to fit clearance wise.

[95 vert]

A/C brackets too

[Turbocharged400sbc]

the aluminum oil pan will work with the Wbody "horseshoe" motormount bracket if you just grind two notches in it near the two bottom edges of the pan...at most your gonna grind a 1/4inch deep notch

 

if the trans fluid looks fine that trans is probably good especially if the motor blew apart

 

btw get used to pulling the filter and dumping it into a clean container in the sunlight and look for clitter glitter in it if its bad

[95 vert]

True that certain year aluminum pans will clear if you notch the mount bracket (I've done this).

I've run across a few newer H bodies that the aluminum pan is taller/deeper and the bracket

simply won't clear it. I think it's the H bodies with the mounts that attach to the oil pan.

[Imp558]

So this weekend the Regal is getting the L67 / 4T65-E HD swap finally. From reading through posts I had the idea that I could swap the tulips from the Park Ave Ultra axles and put them on my axles but you can see in the image the shaft sizes were different, then I put a micrometer on the bearing carrier thinking I would swap the bearings one needle at a time but they were .040" different so no good. I understand the 1998-1999 Monte/Lumina axles work but they don't have ABS reluctors. What's next? Also can anybody tell me if this Gen III Aluminium oil pan is the one that will not fit even with notching the engine mount? Thanks in advance

 

1996 Regal stock is L36/4t60

 

Edit, just checked and the 1998 Monte uses same right shaft as my current part number, and the left one has only 34 splines where my tranny has 39 on the left. Thoroughly confused now.....

Edited April 2, 2013 by Imp558

[rich17]

You need a GTP Inner tulip onto a stock axle.

 

Also i believe the oil pan needs alot more than that to fit

[Turbocharged400sbc]

rich is right you need the gtp inner tripod and tulip

 

aluminum pan just needs the bracket ground/notched to clear, there is only one aluminum pan part number, if you put the horse shoe up to it youll see where ya gotta grind it, you wont have to grind the steel bracket as much if you hit the aluminum pan with a grinder real quick, just gont go too far

Edited April 3, 2013 by Turbocharged400sbc

[Imp558]

Okay, the oil pan I can tackle once I have the L36 out so I have the mount, not a problem and I feel better knowing that it will definately work with a little crafting.

So what year GTP am I after? 1997-2003? When I look up images of those they say they have 34 splines on the Drivers axle but my tranny has 39, did I do bad by getting it from a P.A.U? Are there any other axles / parts that will work so I have other options? I've never seen a GTP in a wrecking yard around here. I may just have to buy new axles new if there's something I can get.

 

 

Broke down and bought 2 new GTP CV Shafts to butcher today. Not a single one here in a yard.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Imp558

[rich17]

The left one should work just fine. I dont think the Park Aves have different insides

[Imp558]

Okay, it's in! It'll take me a couple nights after work to make it run and mod the harness for the boost solenoid, MAP sensor, and new tranny then it's off to the paint shop. While it's still clear in my head I want to post my findings:

Series III Aluminum oil pan that I ran required that I notch the engine mount U shaped bracket on either side to clear the corners on the bottom on both sides. There's a little structural rib towards the center on the front that was just touching so I clearanced the bracket a little there as well but not any major surgery anywhere. My only regret was in not putting my new lower engine mount on the bracket before dropping the engine in since the S-III pan doesn't leave enough room to tighten the nuts (or even start them for that matter).

The CV Shafts were a bit more of a challenge, I purchased 1998 GTP axles and the tulips were not correct for tripods on what I believe to be the car's OE axles. When I took out an axle that I put in last year it was correct for the aftermarket tulip so I ran and bought another aftermarket axle for the host vehicle to do the other side and everything popped together, even able to re-install the band clamps that came with them. The axles I had were all china specials from Advance auto, GSP brand and "Tough one" brand and the internals interchanged well. Every axle I had was a different spline on the shaft, assuming from different manufacturers but I did not try the splines on the new axles against one another since the tulips were the same.

Learned today that HELP/Dorman discontinued our exhaust flange bolts that have the cone like spring, I'm buying up NOS from the parts stores here as I find them.

Edited April 10, 2013 by Imp558

[rich17]

Aftermarket axles are all over the place. Best thing to do if you can is to take used JY units and take them to a CV shop and have them gone through and have them switch the tulips. They'll throw in new bearings and everything and its just about the same price as the reman units.

[Imp558]

Yeah I imagine that the tulips and tripods are manufacturer specific, if I had oem GTP axles They would have popped right together My local shaft guy Says he can't even get those parts anymore to rebuild These ones. I now have about $300 into axles but they're new on the bright side. Right now the heater assembly is giving me fits, I want to move it out of the way so I can relocate the PCM inside the dashboard. So far it appears to be held in by two studs through the firewall and a whole bunch of Elven magic.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Imp558