z34Phoenix Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 i dont remember exactly but looking at the spread sheet i have... the following changes were made at the C100: -B1 fused battery -J1 added for performance shift -A1, C1,C2, L1 removed they were removed as they did not match the 96 harness/c100 plug. it is possible that leaving them does not cause any issues. but then again removing them as i did has not caused any either. I have yet to run the performance shift inside the car and set it up. i like my shift points right now anyway so i dont see me doing it any time soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 I'm getting my L36/L67 swap ready too, and have searched these and every forum for info about the 4T60-E/4T65-E HD swap that will also be taking place. Has anybody replaced a 4T60 with a 4T65? Really hoping the dimensions are the same and pretty sure I'll be mixing shaft parts from the first and second gen to get axles not concerned at all about the PCM cal and wiring. A good write up would be fantastic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z34Phoenix Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 What car is it going into? My monte went from a 60 to a 65e with no problems using the same cradle and Trans mount. I did however use the correct axles from the 98z that the Trans came from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Wow! It's a 96 Regal, so you mean the only thing you needed were 2nd Gen axles? Do they have our ABS reluctors and all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z34Phoenix Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 (edited) The 98/99z were still 1.5 gen wbodys. To do the he swap you need the hd inner and possibly your stock outer Edited June 18, 2012 by z34Phoenix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wickedbuick Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 I used Monte axles like 95-99 ones. I am running Z34 strut towers so I went with those. I dont know if the hubs have the same spline count from my stock axles and the montes but thats what I used. I also swapped the inner tulip on my passenger axle with a GTP tulip because I also did the HD conversion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 [TABLE=width: 500] [TR] [TD] [TABLE] [TR] [TD=width: 87]1996 Regal [/TD] [TD=width: 83]P/N[/TD] [TD=width: 83]Length[/TD] [TD=width: 109]Tranny Splines[/TD] [TD=width: 86]Hub Splines[/TD] [TD=width: 86]ABS[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Left Axle[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD]GM-8035[/TD] [TD]20 11/32”[/TD] [TD]35[/TD] [TD]33[/TD] [TD]47 [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD]80-1342[/TD] [TD]20 3/8”[/TD] [TD]35[/TD] [TD]33[/TD] [TD]47[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Right Axle[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD]GM-8035[/TD] [TD]23 17/32”[/TD] [TD]34[/TD] [TD]33[/TD] [TD]47[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD]80-1393[/TD] [TD]23 1/2”[/TD] [TD]34[/TD] [TD]33[/TD] [TD]47[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]1998 Lumina[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Left Axle[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD]GM-8128[/TD] [TD]20 9/16”[/TD] [TD]34[/TD] [TD]33[/TD] [TD]47[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD]80-1439[/TD] [TD]20 3/8”[/TD] [TD]34[/TD] [TD]33[/TD] [TD]47[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Right Axle[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD]GM-8036[/TD] [TD]23 17/32”[/TD] [TD]34[/TD] [TD]33[/TD] [TD]47[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD]80-1393[/TD] [TD]23 1/2”[/TD] [TD]34[/TD] [TD]33[/TD] [TD]47[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]1998 PA Ultra[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Left Axle[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD]GM-8045[/TD] [TD]22 1/16”[/TD] [TD]34[/TD] [TD]33[/TD] [TD]N/A[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD]80-1818[/TD] [TD]21 7/8”[/TD] [TD]34[/TD] [TD]33[/TD] [TD]N/A[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Right Axle[/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD]GM-8156[/TD] [TD]25 19/32”[/TD] [TD]34[/TD] [TD]33[/TD] [TD]N/A[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD]80-1817[/TD] [TD]25 5/16”[/TD] [TD]39[/TD] [TD]33[/TD] [TD]N/A[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] I made this chart off of Rockauto information, the Park Ave Ultra was my tranny donor, and it looks like I could be using a PA tulip on that side. The L67 was W body from a 97 GP. Thanks for the help guys, I should be alright pending the actual width of the 4T65-E HD vs the 4t60-E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z34Phoenix Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 All the 65hds will be same dimensions so I would think the only factor to get the correct axel would be the engine cradle and struts. I have also heard that lowered suspension puts pressure on the axles. So if your are lowered or plan to you might want to get shorter axles from that chart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich17 Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 The park ave trans mounts are different. You should be able to pull your trans mounts from the 60 and put it on. IIRC the case is exactly the same on 4T60s and 65s. If youre doing the HD trans then yes you will need the inner portion from a GTP axle to put on your stock 60e outer. And you'll need a 98/99 monte/lumina 3800 drivers axle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaraxkad Posted September 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2012 I am now (finally) actively sourcing parts to begin this project, so I have a few more questions... There seems to be a lot of different variations between cars with the 4T65e (both HD and non-HD). I've read arguments both for and against the HD versions, mainly that the HD only has a different torque converter and differential but the internals are all the same. Is this correct? Aside from HD/non-HD, the primary difference between them all seems to be the Final Drive ratio. I'm vaguely familiar with the effect that gear ratios and final drive has on performance, but not familiar enough to look at the numbers and know exactly which one I want in my car... Of all the different versions, can I pick and choose any of them and have it work without a fuss? Are there any that just plain won't work? Which one is "ideal" for my swap? Should I go straight for the highest 3.29 FD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z34Phoenix Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 what trans you go with really depends on what you want. 2.93 in the HD is great for good highway mpg 3.29 in the non HD will give you better acceleration at the cost of mpg on highway. I read somewhere that the stall speed diff between the HD and non is only like 80 rpm so its not that big a diff. and the stronger differential of the HD trans isnt that big a deal. the failures that are seen and talked about on the forums are rarely at the diff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaraxkad Posted September 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 (edited) A little more research on other forums has cleared up a few things on the drive ratios. There are three different differential ratios, and three different drive/driven sprocket/gear/pulley sets, mix and match the two and you get 9 different final ratios. It seems that any gear set and any differential fits on any 4T65e, HD or non-HD. Assuming that's all correct... My new trans question is: If the engine and trans are sourced from separate cars, should the PCM match the engine or the trans? And one more: Is HPTuners the only option for tuning these? DHP appears to be no more. Edited September 7, 2012 by Quaraxkad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 you can still buy used DHP units and download the software from various sources. yes, you can use any 4T65 diff with any 4T65 trans and any 4T65 sprocket set as well. wouldn't know on PCM.... FWIW, when Andrei did his L67/4T65 swap in his 95 regal, the trans came from an 03 3100 application and didn't shift correctly until an 03 PCM was used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaraxkad Posted September 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 I checked eBay and didn't find any DHP units for sale, though it would have to be pretty cheap to choose that over HPTuners based on what I've seen of the software. DHP looks pretty easy to use but rudimentary. I also looked at EFILive and liked it, then I saw the price, and the engine isn't supported anyway. I'm shocked that there isn't something cheaper. I'd settle for a software-only editor and read/burn the bins myself with my Willem burner if that was an option. Live reading and flashing is convenient, but I can live without it for $650. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 I'd settle for a software-only editor and read/burn the bins myself with my Willem burner if that was an option. tinytuner. http://theblattners.com/projects/TinyTuner/Default.html i have a BUNCH of 60V6 BINs but pretty much no 3800 BINs. a significantly cheaper/free(ish) OBD2 option is on the way.... but i couldn't tell you when it will actually get released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich17 Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 My 65e is from a 2001 3400 Monte. Works fine but had to have the final drive adjusted by using DHP. It has a 3:05 gear in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pshojo Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 The 3400 trans would've had different stall speed torque converter too? According to gm tuner website Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaraxkad Posted September 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 (edited) tinytuner. http://theblattners.com/projects/TinyTuner/Default.html i have a BUNCH of 60V6 BINs but pretty much no 3800 BINs. a significantly cheaper/free(ish) OBD2 option is on the way.... but i couldn't tell you when it will actually get released. TunyTuner looks pretty decent for a free option! I'll have to try it out when I get my PCM and see if it can modify all the parameters I'm interested in. I'll also have to do a bit more research on the PCM and make sure it has a chip I can actually read and burn, otherwise I'd still need to buy an expensive flashing tool. It just might be enough to get me started though, thanks! What else can you tell me about this freeish option? I'm intrigued. EDIT: I just found some stock L67 bins, and it looks like TinyTuner can edit just about every parameter! I don't see that it can disable DTCs though. EDIT2: And it's open source, in a language I'm fluent in. Edited September 8, 2012 by Quaraxkad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 it uses a database file that can be added onto, so should you find the location and bit pattern of the DTCs(via whatever method, i have a few thoughts assuming someone has the DHP software to do a BIN edit...), you could add them in to disable them/set them to always passed. the EEPROM is a fairly common one, i want to say it's an Intel unit, 256KB for 1996 and 512KB for 1997-upwards. a quick google search shows 28F400BX as probably being the correct one. anyways, with a Willems, 99% chance it will support it, so long as you have a PLCC adapter to throw it in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z34Phoenix Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Tinytuner will disable codes. It's actually easier to find a bin file for the correct Trans first as long as I has a 3800 engine. I am using a 98 z34 file in mine. Then again I swapped in a 98 engine Trans and harness. But I will use the same file as a base for when I am top swapped I do not think you can burn a chip for these pcms. U will need a tuner to upload the file. Yes dhp is out of business but a dhp and tiny tuner will give you the most functionality/ Options to change. Not to mention not needing to buy extra credits to access files with diff vin numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 I do not think you can burn a chip for these pcms. you can.... it's just not as simple as with the older PCMs. here, you'll either have to JTAG it or remove the PROM from the board and install a ZIF socket to allow it to be removed/reinstalled lightning fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaraxkad Posted September 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 (edited) it uses a database file that can be added onto, so should you find the location and bit pattern of the DTCs(via whatever method, i have a few thoughts assuming someone has the DHP software to do a BIN edit...), you could add them in to disable them/set them to always passed. I did take a look at the TinyTuner database file and it's pretty self-explanatory. However I'm not familiar enough with OBDII to dig around in undocumented areas of the code and figure out what address to modify for each DTC. But I'm sure someone's got that info available somewhere though, it should be easy enough to add to the database. They'd also be easy to find by comparing bins with each DTC enabled and disabled. the EEPROM is a fairly common one, i want to say it's an Intel unit, 256KB for 1996 and 512KB for 1997-upwards. a quick google search shows 28F400BX as probably being the correct one. anyways, with a Willems, 99% chance it will support it, so long as you have a PLCC adapter to throw it in. I can indeed burn 28F400BX chips, and I think I already have the adapter for it, thanks for looking that up. I'll probably get HPTuners or a used DHP if I come across one at some point in the future for pure convenience, but this is a great start at tuning for free since I already have everything I need. It's certainly not as convenient or fancy as flashing, but I've dealt with burning chips for my other car, I can live with it on this one too. Tinytuner will disable codes. It's actually easier to find a bin file for the correct Trans first as long as I has a 3800 engine. I am using a 98 z34 file in mine. Then again I swapped in a 98 engine Trans and harness. But I will use the same file as a base for when I am top swapped It will disable codes, but I didn't see any entries in the provided database for that to work "out of the box". EDIT: I just opened up a few more random stock bins I had downloaded and I did find one that had DTC parameters available for editing. That was from a 2002 Grand Prix GTP. It didn't look complete though. I'm not sure if it's got the ones that need to be dealt with on a L67 swap. you can.... it's just not as simple as with the older PCMs. here, you'll either have to JTAG it or remove the PROM from the board and install a ZIF socket to allow it to be removed/reinstalled lightning fast. I'll definitely be socketing mine. Edited September 8, 2012 by Quaraxkad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topless94style2 Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 While i do not intend to take away from tge OP i was putting the final touches on my swap and came upon a slight problem 1st gen swaps will find usefull. 94 cutlass, 98 regal motor, 98 monte carlo harness. What do i do for rad fans? The 98 monte harness has one similiar fan plug as the regal butnot exact and only one.the regal has a 4 wire plug the connects to the main harness and does a Y to the fans but is not useful. The cutlass harness is no help. So, whats the best solution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaraxkad Posted September 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 (edited) While i do not intend to take away from tge OP i was putting the final touches on my swap and came upon a slight problem 1st gen swaps will find usefull. 94 cutlass, 98 regal motor, 98 monte carlo harness. What do i do for rad fans? The 98 monte harness has one similiar fan plug as the regal butnot exact and only one.the regal has a 4 wire plug the connects to the main harness and does a Y to the fans but is not useful. The cutlass harness is no help. So, whats the best solution? Please, ask away! I'll probably have all the same questions when I start doing the work myself. Can't you re-pin the monte harness with the connectors from your cutlass harness, and extend the wires if needed? Or, I found this posted by BXX in another thread on a swap into a 95 Grand Prix: "Radiator hoses need to be from the 98/99 Lumi/MC. Recommend installing a LQ1 radiator and LX5 Intrigue fan assembly. LX5 fans are bolt in, no wiring needed." http://www.w-body.com/showthread.php/53371-Advice-on-motor-swap?p=1063854&viewfull=1#post1063854 Edited September 9, 2012 by Quaraxkad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 well, with OBD1, GM used two cooling fan drivers to drive two relays, one for the driver's side fan, the other for the passenger fan. they only ran at one speed as well. when the OBD2 transition happened, there were 3 relays used from two fan drivers to create a setup that allowed both fans to turn on at a low speed or high speed, but they had to turn on with each other, couldn't be controlled independantly. there are merits and detriments to both systems, it's really your choice which path to take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.