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Greazzer

2001 Oldsmobile Intrigue

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I am new to the forum, and I may have posted this in the wrong section. I am also trying to learn how to move around on the forum. Here is my question posted in the new member section. Any help please. My wife loves this car, so I am trying to fix it before it goes to the Pull-a-Part. Thanks in advance.

 

[h=2]PLEASE, Help for 2001 Intrigue[/h]

I have a 2001 Olds Intrigue. Looks like a bunch of stuff just went wrong at once. It has 215K miles on it. Is there anyone out there that has dropped the sub-frame? Are there any references or info out there on how to do this. I need to replace the water pump, valve cover gaskets, serp belt, and cross-over gaskets. I think it will be easier to drop everthing and work on it while I can easily access everything. I have access to a car lift and full auto shop, although I am not a mechanic by trade, but I have been working on cars for years. Any one, please any information. Time is a killer for me, so I would rather do things faster even if it involves something as exotic as dropping drivetrain. Thanks in advance.

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Admittedly, I don't know much about your LX5 (3.5) But I think you would be getting into far more work dropping it all out then dealing with it in the car. I would think the valve cover and crossover gaskets could be done without too much trouble from up top. I don't know much about the water pump, but i'd imagine its not too awful bad to do in car.

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This is the procedure for removing the subframe with leaving everything else in the vehicle, just ignore the things that your removing with the subframe

 

Frame Replacement

 

Tools Required

 

J 39580 Universal Engine Support Table

 

Removal Procedure

 

Install the engine support fixture. Refer to Engine Support Fixture in Engine Mechanical.

Raise and support the vehicle. Refer to Lifting and Jacking the Vehicle in General Information.

Remove the front tires and wheels. Refer to Tire and Wheel Removal and Installation in Tires and Wheels.

Disconnect the fog lamp electrical connectors and position aside.

Remove the radiator lower air deflector. Refer to Radiator Air Baffle Assemblies and Deflectors (Lower) Radiator Air Baffle Assemblies and Deflectors (Side) Radiator Air Baffle Assemblies and Deflectors (Air Baffle) in Engine Cooling.

Remove the positive battery cable and retainers from the frame and position aside. Refer to Battery Positive Cable Replacement in Engine Electrical.

Disconnect the power steering cooler pipe from the frame. Refer to Power Steering Cooler Pipe/Hose Replacement in Power Steering.

Secure the power steering cooler.

Remove the stabilizer shaft links and rotate the stabilizer shaft up to gain access to the power steering gear mounting bolts. Refer to Stabilizer Shaft Link Replacement in Front Suspension.

Remove the power steering gear mounting bolts. Refer to Steering Gear Replacement in Power Steering.

Secure the power steering gear.

Remove the engine mount-to-frame nuts. Refer to Engine Front Mount Replacement in Engine Mechanical - 3.5L.

Remove the transaxle mount-to-frame nuts. Refer to Transmission Mount Replacement in Automatic Transaxle - 4T65-E.

Disconnect both front wheel speed sensor connectors (1).

Remove both front wheel speed harness retainers (2) from the frame and the lower control arms.

Separate both of the lower ball joints from the steering knuckle. Refer to Lower Control Arm Replacement in Front Suspension.

Lower the vehicle until the frame contacts the J 39580.

Remove and DISCARD the front frame-to-body bolts.

Remove and DISCARD the rear frame-to-body bolts.

Raise the vehicle in order to separate the frame from the body.

If you are replacing the frame, remove the following components:

Both of the lower control arms. Refer to Lower Control Arm Replacement in Front Suspension.

The stabilizer shaft. Refer to Stabilizer Shaft Replacement in Front Suspension.

The spacers, the upper insulator, the lower insulator, and the retainers. Refer to Front Frame Cushion or Insulator Replacement (See: Body / Frame Mount Bushing\Service and Repair\Front Frame Cushion or Insulator Replacement) and to Rear Frame Cushion or Insulator Replacement (See: Body / Frame Mount Bushing\Service and Repair\Rear Frame Cushion or Insulator Replacement).

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IMHO, an LX5 with ~215K miles and problems is likely good for one thing - a boat anchor. ;)

 

So, I suggest the following:

http://paceperformance.com/i-6484855-12458123-3-5llx5-hdohc-1999-2000-olds-intrigue-with-federal-emissionsnf2.html

 

It was ~$2,100 including shipping to have them drop it in my garage at my house.

 

I very strongly suggest that you reconsider putting money and time into an LX5 engine with ~215K miles.

Sorry, IMHO, the shortstar is yet another classic POS engine.

 

In case you were wondering what you have to look forward to with the LX5 and Intrigue, see all of the repairs done at:

http://99intrigue.shutterfly.com/

http://99intrigue.shutterfly.com/engineremoval

 

Yea, I'd say that tracks closely with my ~120K mile 2000 Intrigue.

Currently, I'm replacing the orig engine in my Intrigue. Like many GM alum engines, the LX5 has a tendency to blow head gaskets.

 

 

Good Luck!

Edited by Cutlass350

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THANKS guys!

 

I think I have two general options. Do the repairs and HOPE they last until next year. I will gain experience, et cet., for under $150.00 which is not horrible. So, assuming all goes well and the repairs last until next year, any suggestions on getting a rebuilt-remanufactured engine and transmission. My second option is my plan on simply investing $4-$5K and replacing everything. Last year I replaced the tie rod ends and CV joints which made the car feel like new. I also replaced the hubs as they lasted about 200K at the time of RR. I agree that the nickle and dime stuff is very annoying, but if I can squeeze another year or so out of the old girl befoe she gets all new stuff, that will give me more than enough time to do my market research, et cet. Any ideas, vendors, et cet. Thanks again for all the help. Glad I joined.

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Don't bother dropping the cradle and taking the engine out!! As everyone has said, it's way too much work. Taking it out through the top or bottom will take you a hell of a lot more time than you have. Everything can be accessed fairly easily inside the car. The link that Cutlass350 posted should be more than enough to help (nice pics btw!!).

 

Worse case with the engine, you find a low mileage used one, and have a tech school put in for half price = less than $1000 for everything including their labor!!

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Mark,

 

 

I'm not sure of your level of skill, but this is my swap thread:

 

http://www.w-body.com/showthread.php/50461-Breakdown-s-1996-Grand-Prix-SE-.-.-.

 

I don't have the proper skillz for this type of thing.

 

If you do, and you have the patience to get a good donor, here's what I did cost wise:

 

$400 for 1996 parts car, running, brakes seized, body beyond rusted out, LIM gaskets just done and same with plugs and wires 68K miles.

$70 Transmission lines (boken while doing swap).

-$200 after selling parts car for scrap, after 1/2 a trailer rental and gas for my buddy to take the trailer away, etc.

 

$270 Total (now again, if you don't have skills, like me, you'll have to treat the hired help like kings, hopefully I treated them okay, I don't remember so well, I had a fever of 107 the night the engine went in).

 

I'm was left with a 3100 series engine with 154K miles on the odometer (we scrapped that, but it was working and could have been sold).

 

Chinese Matt helped me remove all of the EGR Valve, Coilpacks, ICM, and all of the extra junk for the car for future resale.

 

I have all of the tails to sell or use, I have a plethora of bulbs, I have a console and trim that is in better condition than the keeper car, and if you were to get another Intrigue that was lets say in an accident or something you might end up with something like leather seats that you can spin for another $100 or so, or tires and rims that are actually worth something, you get the idea. Took me about 6 months of shopping to find this "deal."

 

Best of luck with what you're doing and what you chose to do going forward.

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My second option is my plan on simply investing $4-$5K and replacing everything.

No kidding!

So far, I've bought over $3K in parts - not counting the new long block engine!

 

The good news: You can replace the rack with the engine and tranny out, and the subframe still connected. YES!

Mine had the classic morning sickness during the winter. It was a PITA to wait ~5 mins to have to drive the car. Even then, the steering was "sticky". Once the weather got better, it was perfect. Hmm, move to Southern Florida or replace the rack? :think:

 

Also, the passenger-side front brake line goes behind the steering shaft. I live in snowy New England. So, that's a great place for sand, gunk, salt, snow, etc to sit on that brake line. I don't know how that super rusty part of that brake line was holding any pressure. It what would have definitely burst in 1-2 years! Now, without an engine, transmission, rack, power booster, master cylinder, ABS, etc, there's plenty of room to work on that brake line. Although, it seems like an extreme method to replace just one brake line. :D

 

 

Otherwise, the rest of the Intrigue is in pretty good shape (again, I have a new GM tranny only ~2 years old). One of the head rests for the back seat is discolored. BFD! :) And, the paint on the spoiler is peeling. I have a few scratches on the car. So, I'll either rattle can the spoiler, or get the whole car painted. A lot will depend on how this mega refresh of parts goes. My timeframe is to try to finish before ~Feb.

 

Also, it seems like GM cheaped out (big surprise) on the flash on the ABS. So, after a while, the ABS module will have flash write errors. GM could have specified more flash, but I guess they didn't want to spend the extra ~$10. The good news is that you can remove the electronics without disconnecting the brake lines, send it to a referb place for ?$150?, get it back, put it back together, and be good for another ~10 years.

OR, pay ~$2.5K+ and have the dealer fox it. ;)

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OK Guys, I totally WHIMPED OUT !

 

I just changed the water pump and RR the thermostat. BUT, made the decision to sell the 1993 Acura Legend, and take the proceeds to buy a NEW/REMAN Engine, Transmission, Steering, Ball Joints, et cet. So, getting rid of the Japanese Car and keeping some Detroit Steel. I plan on picking up a sub frame, cleaning it to near perfection, painting it, and bringing NEW life to the old girl. So, I guess, not a total whimp job. I am going to post a BRAND NEW thread about finding parts. I will post some pictures of the new thermostat and waterpump, but not too exciting. Thanks Again. You imspired me to keep the ol'e Betsy.

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I have kept ol'e Betsy and 2 years have come and gone incredibly fast. Right now, 240K on the clock. While driving a somewhat long distance drive, it was purring along like always and then it overheated. It has never done this before while driving. It has "overheated" while sitting still, but not while cruising along. It was boiling. Long story short is that I nursed it home. No blown headgaskets from what I can tell. Since I last checked in, she's got new front brakes, new calipers, new rotors, new wheel bearing hubs, new lower control arms, et cet. She drives incredibly smooth. I got incredibly nice tires on it too. Right now, I either got a bad waterpump, bad radiator, or something else in the cooling system. And yes, the dreaded cross-over gaskets which gives me a nice leak overnight from the cooling system. We have had this car now 13 years and but for this or that maintenance or normal repair item, The 2001 Intrigue has been a pretty good car. I hate to get rid of it.

 

So, does anyone know where I can buy the real shop manuals for this car? I am thinking I will have to replace a bunch of gaskets and seals and having the drivetrain out seems the overall easist way to go. I read where dropping the engine sub-frame takes just 1-2 hours. I have access to a lift. I already got new valve cover gaskets, new AC Delco Waterpump, and a few other odds and ends. If no head gasket issues present themselves, I am thinking new gaskets and a complete once over will breath another few years with Besty. My goal is 300K on the engine.

 

Any leads would be helpful.

 

Thanks again !

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I have kept ol'e Betsy and 2 years have come and gone incredibly fast. Right now, 240K on the clock. While driving a somewhat long distance drive, it was purring along like always and then it overheated. It has never done this before while driving. It has "overheated" while sitting still, but not while cruising along. It was boiling.

Huh?!?!

 

Unless you have bad head gaskets that are leaking cylinder temps into the coolant system, an Olds 3.5L (shortstar) engine can not overheat. Really, really, really! :)

You can take the radiator out of the car, go driving in the Nevada Desert during a very hot and sunny summer day, have the AC blasting on full, and the engine will still not overheat. Really, that's one of the tests that GM did. :)

 

GM screwed up many many many things. But, GM also had/has some very cool technology. One was the ability of the Northstar and Shortstar engine to never overheat. The engines would go way down in power, but not over heat! They would cycle cylinders off/on to help cool the engine. Check out Wikipedia and google searches.

BTW, GM was able to do that by having a good model of the cats inside the PCM algorithm. The big problem is really having the cats get to hot from running lean.

 

 

My first suggestion is to test for exhaust gases in the radiator. The kits costs ~$40. Many videos on youtube.

Then, do a compression check. A cylinder leak test is best, but requires a compressor and more a more expensive tool.

FWIW, my engine, and many others, never threw a misfire code even with a rather bad head-gasket leak.

 

Good Luck!

Edited by Cutlass350

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FYI:

Combustion Leak Detector

 

41kgygOIsYL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Lisle 75500 Combustion Leak Detector

Price: $30.57

http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-75500-Combustion-Leak-Detector/dp/B0007ZDRUI/

 

 

 

Better, what I suggest:

0062860400246_P321146_300X300.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/UVIEW-560000-Combustion-Leak-Tester/dp/B000NPDL76/

UVIEW 560000 Combustion Leak Tester

Price: $54.73

 

 

 

Videos:

Combustion Gas Leak Detector for Cylinder Head Gasket Check

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_SIwHMLmkM

 

How to Test Head Gasket (He starts doing the test at ~5:30m)

 

 

 

Compression Testers:

Good:

41JS6DGRRNL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Equus 3612 Innova Compression Tester - 4 Piece Kit

Price: $24.98

www.amazon.com/Equus-3612-Innova-Compression-Tester/dp/B000EVU89I/

 

 

Better:

41TGHGC7P5L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Actron CP7828 Professional Compression Tester with Storage Pouch

Price: $35.04

http://www.amazon.com/Actron-CP7828-Professional-Compression-Storage/dp/B00020BM28

 

 

 

 

Leak Down Tester:

This looks like a decent leak-down tester for a good price:

 

51xtBQ2m0ZL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/OTC-5609-Cylinder-Leakage-Tester/dp/B0030EVL60/

OTC 5609 Cylinder Leakage Tester Kit

Price: $60.36

 

Again, you need a real air compressor to use a leak-down tester.

 

 

Good Luck!

Edited by Cutlass350

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So, does anyone know where I can buy the real shop manuals for this car?

 

You can get the GM Dealer Service manuals on ebay. The manuals for the 98 year are cheap (they have a different engine). The 2000 and 2001 manuals are expensive. The 1999 manuals will have 3.5L info in it, but not with the AIR system.

 

On ebay, do a search for:

2001 Intrigue service manual

 

I see them now at ~$200. Yea, they've gone up.

 

 

You can get a set of the 1999 service manuals for ~$50. That's supply and demand.

Edited by Cutlass350

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I read where dropping the engine sub-frame takes just 1-2 hours. I have access to a lift. I already got new valve cover gaskets, new AC Delco Waterpump, and a few other odds and ends. If no head gasket issues present themselves, I am thinking new gaskets and a complete once over will breath another few years with Besty. My goal is 300K on the engine.

Yes, dropping the engine and tranny on the subframe with a lift is much faster. :)

 

But, without a lift, imho, getting an engine and subframe from underneath a car that is on jack-stands, blocks, etc, is asking for problems. Especially with any angle on the body putting stress on the POS unibody. Just ask people that have yanked a tranny from a RWD car how high the car has to get (I've done that a few times :)). Then, add even more height.

 

Good Luck!

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Thank you Joe. Not sure how I got attached to an Intrigue ... LOL .:)

 

Good luck with the tests!

 

Imho, if you do need an engine (or head gasket R&R) and if the rest of the car is in good shape, then put a 100% Brand-new GM long-block in the car for a steal of a price of under $3000! Really, that's a steal. Heck, a POS rebuilt will cost you that. BTW, once these are gone, they are gone for good. Oh yea, GM has been trying to unload these engines for over 10 years, that's why they are so cheap. :)

 

From:

http://paceperformance.com/i-6484856-12458124-new-gm-2000-2002-3-5l-214-cid-6-cylinder-engine.html

GM Goodwrench - 12458124 - NEW GM 2000 - 2002 3.5L, 214 CID, 6 Cylinder Engine

12458124 - NEW GM 2000 - 2002 3.5L, 214 CID, 6 Cylinder Engine

SKU: 12458124

Pricing: $2599.63

(Note S&H extra :))

 

 

 

How the engine comes from GM/paceperformance:

olds_engineR&R_pic11.jpg

 

olds_engineR&R_pic12.jpg

Edited by Cutlass350

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I invested about 20 hours collectively, and this is what I did.

 

No engine removed, but I wish I did:

 

1. The dreaded cross-over gaskets;

2. Water pump (AC Delco) and no more getting hot; :)

3. Valve Cover Gaskets;

4. Plenum Gaskets (x6);

5. Newer EGR and gasket;

6. New spark plugs;

7. New throttle bottle gasket;

8. New AC Delco thermostat housing

9. New Fuel Injectors (Delphi)

10. Removal of about 1 pound of black gooey carbon

11. Oil Change and filer

 

She runs like a CHAMP now. The only casualities were the following:

 

1. Exhaust donut on front driver's side when I had to remove the 2 bolts to pry the exhaust cross over pipe over about 1/2". I need to replace that as I now have a very low growl. Sort of like it.

2. "Lost" a 13mm Gearhead wrench somewhere in the back of the engine. I hope I find that. It screws up my set of 6.

 

I am very very happy I did this. No more leaking. No more overheating. No more misfire codes. She purrs like the day we drove her home 2001.

 

I cheated a little. The 6 bolts which held on the cross over coolant pipe were shortened by 1/16" or so. One can remove the cross over pipe without removing the exhaust pipe. If you cut off a tiny amount from the PITA bolts, the cross over pipe slides right in. Actually, on reflection, with the slightly modified bolts, I am thinking that if I every had to do this again, I could do it under 3 hours. One does need a very long 13mm gear head wrench, with slight offset. If I had this, then maybe 2 1/2 hours.

 

I did this in chunks of 2-4 hours per day.

 

I wish I could figure out how to post pictures.

 

It was getting late today, but I went ahead and compounded, polished, and waxed the hood. I am going to do one body panel per day. She shines like new money.

 

AND, it has 241, 424 miles on the clock and if you floor it, she SMOKES most of the Rice Burner Tuner cars in my neck of the woods !

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post-6659-14368914207_thumb.jpg

 

You can see that 2 of the 3 of the cross over gaskets were completely shot. I was losing about 1 gallon of water a day. Now, I got DexCool in the ol' girl.

 

Also, for all those getting hot and "overheating" issues, I suggest an AC Delco Water Pump. The remans and other manufacturers use a plastic impeller. Here's a picture of junk plastic impeller. AC Delco uses a cast steel one. Also, I forgot to mention that I got my diverter valves changed and my Cali Emissions should be up and running in a few days. NO vacuum leaks ! I got a secondary air pump on order. Just looking for an intact plastic housing

 

Here are the ends of the bolts I cut off. Once the dreaded cross over pipe is removed and the 3 PITA bolts are shortened just a tiny amount, she slides right in AND you can slide it right out too. I had a little problem getting my gaskets lined up. I suggest pushing the bolts thru the gaskets as they are super snug and they wont move a bit once you do that.

 

Here are my thoughts on the dreaded cross over gasket repair:

 

1. Disconnect the battery

2. Remove air box - filter assembly

3. Remove EGR

4. Remove throttle body AND plate -- its held on by 3 thread studs

5. Remove the 2 bolts which hold the exhaust flange down by the front of the car. If you have Cali emissons, you have to remove the front diverter valve

6. Remove the 6 bolts. You should have a selection of wrenches and sockets in the 13mm flavor. If you have a long Snap On racheting 13mm wrench with offset, great.

 

You can pry the exhaust pipe over about 1/2" and then get another pry bar and slightly tap the bolts out. Like your chiseling the bolts away from the car-- the 2 will shoot out from the car.

 

I am NOT recommending that anyone cut any of their bolts. I take no responsibility if you do. I did this since it was impossible to remove the back exhaust manifold. When I cut the bolts, the coolant cross over component can slide in and out without an issue. I also ran a tap and die to clean up the threads since there was a lot of junk on them. Nice and crisp threads.

 

I used a little permatex just to be sure.

 

So, right now, no overheating, no misifring (I used AC Delco Plugs and Delphi injectors), and no leaking. I used all AC Delco parts or Delphi or Fel-Pro gaskets.

 

In sum, 20 hours, less than $400 bucks and it's a GREAT Ride.

 

GOAL: Detail the car, remaining problems - repairs (less than 10 hours I am thinking and less than $100), and put 300,000 on the clock. That is with an original drivetrain too !!!!

post-6659-143689142034_thumb.jpg

post-6659-143689142055_thumb.jpg

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You can see that 2 of the 3 of the cross over gaskets were completely shot. I was losing about 1 gallon of water a day. Now, I got DexCool in the ol' girl.

 

Here are the ends of the bolts I cut off. Once the dreaded cross over pipe is removed and the 3 PITA bolts are shortened just a tiny amount, she slides right in AND you can slide it right out too. I had a little problem getting my gaskets lined up. I suggest pushing the bolts thru the gaskets as they are super snug and they wont move a bit once you do that.

 

Wow, great job! Congratulations on getting the job done, and at a fraction of the price that a garage would charge.

And, thanks for the tip!

 

The diverter valves and the AIR pump aren't cheap. But, they have also lasted over 10 years. :)

 

How much did you pay for the new injectors? I saw that they go anywhere from ~$27/each for reman to ~$125/each for Delco.

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Wow, great job! Congratulations on getting the job done, and at a fraction of the price that a garage would charge.

And, thanks for the tip!

 

Thank you Sir ! That car with 241,478 miles on the clock drives like a dream. I did some little traffic code violations today and the performance is amazing right now. FAST, SMOOTH, and PEPPY! And yes, I called the dealer before hand for kicks and the quote for the repairs and maintenance was over $3,000 ... NOT !

 

 

 

The diverter valves and the AIR pump aren't cheap. But, they have also lasted over 10 years. :)

 

I always look at the junkyards. I found 2 "new" ones which were clearly recent replacements before the car got junked. They held perfect vacuum overnight before I installed them. They certainly looked new to me. $5 bucks each! The pump is $150 shipped. AC Delco. I am just looking for the bottom half of the plastic housing. They all crumble.

 

 

 

How much did you pay for the new injectors? I saw that they go anywhere from ~$27/each for reman to ~$125/each for Delco

 

What ? I got my set of 6 for $154 SHIPPED. These were OEM Delphi, NEW. Got them off Ebay. The old ones had the same exact numbering and markings and they were the originals. They came ready with O-rings, plug and play. I asked the vendor on Ebay to ship USPS Flat rate box $5.80 and he agreed vs $12 UPS ground.

 

This weekend is air box time. I am slightly mod'ing the air box and adding a semi-cold air system. Going thru the fender where the secondary air pump is located. Tight squeeze but I am thinking it will work. The 3" tubing will snake thru there. Just a little concerned over the K&N Cone and fitment issues.

 

I am totally ticked off at myself in doing the brakes last year. I got new rotors, new front wheel bearing hubs, new calipers, and pads. I now want to do the 12" big brake upgrade but I got to wait until these wear out. I think the calipers got a life time warranty and maybe I can sweet talk the Autozone guy into a swap. If so, I will do the mod within a year.

 

Next year, I am replacing the original CAT with the upgrade and the few other mod's which are available. Slim pickings for mods and upgrades. However, all the various R&R maintenance items are pretty cheap after you shop around. I will post my market research and various pricing. I was pretty surprised as to affordability.

 

Once the exhaust leak is fixed, once the air filter is replaced / and - or mod'd, and I swap out the 8-9 different solonoids, valves, which regulate fuel, air, and emissions, it will be time for the RESTORATION --

 

New Carpet

New Headlights

Dye the Seats

Window Tint

 

She will look like new.

 

Once I buff and wax her this weekend, I will post some pictures. I did the hood yesterday. Today, took the day off.:biggrin:

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With the 12 inch brake upgrade, you can get a caliper bracket from an 05 monte carlo, and new rotors and everything else will bolt up, no need to swap the actual calipers or pads

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