karrkrazzie Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 I got a 99 lumina LTZ... Last monday i got the front struts done, and an alignment done. All was well... Until friday when i was driving and the ball joint broke, therefor braking the axel.... Well i got all the old stuff out, and am in the process of putting it all back together and i went to put the new ball joint into place and it does not line up straight at all. the bolt on the ball joint is bent as far as it can go towards the engine, and it is not even through the hole all the way. I have no idea what is wrong, but my one thought is that when they did the alignment they adjusted the tie rod out too far, putting strain on the ball joint causing it to brake. Correct me if i am wrong but i thought the tie rod is what he adjusted to get it all aligned. If that is true, i now need to now how to un adjust it to make it shorter and try and get everything to line up. I just dont understand why a place would be dumb enough to do that. Anyways, any input would be fantastic on either of the two questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Do you have any pics? To adjust toe, you do lenthen/shorten the tie rod... Loosen the nut you see on it and then twist the tie rod using the hexagonal part of it... Hope that makes sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karrkrazzie Posted February 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Is the nut on the tie rod end where is attaches on the side of the strut? I know what you mean by the hexagon part though. I was trying to turn it but was not getting anywhere. is it supposed to be real hard? i dont wanna break it more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 No the nut it holding the tie rod from getting looser or tighter... Let me find a pic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Circled is the nut I was referring to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karrkrazzie Posted February 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 that makes sense, ill give that a shot tomorrow... You ever heard of having a bent strut? Even though it was brand new a week ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 what you are saying is that you cannot get the balljoint to line up with the hole? and you think the tierod is out too far? YOU NEED TO STEP BACK... RELAX.... DON'T PANIC! DO NOT TOUCH TIE_ROD!@!!! the tie rod moves. yes. that's what we call steering. I can see where you might be confused, and perhaps the orientation of the steering has the tie rod pushing out on the strut, as if you were turning. ASSUMING safety from a jackstand, try turning the steering wheel so the tie rod on that side moves in, and it may make getting the strut aligned with the hole a little easier. got it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 I dunno. I dont know the severity of your situation, but i'd try a little harder to get the ball joint bolt to go in the control arm. In the 10+ times I've had my ball joints out, thats always the hardest part, getting the balljoint to go back in the hole. I do have stiffer shorter springs an the 34mm sway bar, which could add to it, but i know that its the toughest part of my job. Its always relieving to feel the ball joint slid into the control arm though. If you can get the bolt to go into the control arm at all, try pushing the knuckle toward the engine or hitting the knuckle with a hammer in an area that wont cause damage. And a poor alignment will not cause your ball joints to suddenly fail. And before I would go messing up an alignment, i'd try to just take out the tie rod from the knuckle. Thats the quickest and easiest way to do what youre trying to do. Go with what ken said if you hadn't already tried that. BUT DONT TOUCH THE TIE ROD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karrkrazzie Posted February 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 it makes sense. It was just something i didnt know if it was a good idea to try... It is just odd to me that this all happened a week after i had the struts done and the alignment done. i mean, the ball joint came apart, i didnt think that was something that happened to often. but i will try that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karrkrazzie Posted February 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 It is really confusing to me. When you look at the location of the control arm to the ball joint to the tie rod, it just doesnt seem like there is anyway to make it line up. it is like the control arm is not long enough.... I know thats not the case but it is what is looks like. I dont know if that makes sense?So my brother talked to his friend and he said maybe a bent strut. i am gonna try just taking the tie rod end out and seeing if it lines up then. Hopefully that will answer a lot of question, and eliminate some possiblilities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Something else might have gotten bent or broke when the ball joint snapped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 i find that given the situation... 1 I hope you are using a jackstand, first off. if not I've used a solid item like a complete tire and rim with the scissor jack lowered enough for medium contact for safety. 2 assuming the car is safe, use a jack to raise the control arm from it's underside, while pushing in on the strut. this may make it easier for you to drop the balljoint into the hole, and you know how us men like sticking things in holes..... sometimes you have to raise the control arm, and then physically pull up on the strut while pushing it inward to get it in the right postion to catch it and seat it home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karrkrazzie Posted February 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Thanks for all the advice... I am hoping to have some time tomorow to putz with it and all this information will be useful, Ill post tomorrow night to say how it went. Keep the info coming thought with any added input and i will check periodically tomorrow, and definitelly again tomorrow before i work on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karrkrazzie Posted February 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Soooo..... Went out today and tried some of the stuff that was recommended and nothing worked, it just wasnt lining up. So I decided that i was gonna make more work for myself and remove the entire strut and spring assembly to make sure that I was not dealing with a bent strut. So with everything out of there i left the tie rod end attached and put the axle into the hub and tried just putting the ball joint where it belongs, even without the strut or spring in the way there is still no way that it is going into the control arm. WTF!!! I am thinking that i should try replacing the tie rod, inner and outer?????.... If that doesnt work i am real worried i screwed up the whole rack and pinion and this is going to turn into an even more expensive car then i thought.... btw.... i bought it for 1200, already at 620 in repairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 did you pull the axle out too far when taking everything off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karrkrazzie Posted February 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 We put a new axle in and it went in what seemed like all the way... Although now that you say that I will double check and make sure it is in all the way. we had it in last night but with all the screwin around with the spring and everything it may have gotten pulled out a little bit. I'll try that out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karrkrazzie Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Any easy way to tell if you steering rack got screwed up? Also if anyone has any good tips on how to get a tie rod end out of the strut assembly... Got a pickle fork and just cannot get the damn thing to budge... even with the pressure from the spring and strut out of the equation. i am getting a new tie rod and tie rod end so would cutting it just be the easiest or could that possibly make it hardder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 NO! The tie rod you are likely talking about cutting is part of the inner tie rod. Which is trouble to replace. The steering rack question, I'm not sure...its basically a toothed rod with a round gear as an input from the steering shaft. The inner tie rod ends go on the ends of the toothed rod part and then the outer tie rod ends attach to that. You can look to see if the rack housing is attached to the subframe but as far as i'm aware the main way racks fail is blowing out the seals for the power steering. Sometimes its hard to get tie rod ends and ball joints out. If youre using a pickle fork for those jobs, when in doubt bet a bigger hammer. I had a time busting my ball joints free with only a regular carpernters hammer. Can you use a mini sledge?. You took the nut off the bottom, right? In my experience, the best way to get the whole strut assembly (assuming the knuckle, hub, strut, spring and top mount are all together ALSO assuming the axle is in place where it should be) back in is as follows: Line up the three studs the right way, slide at least one through the strut tower and the plate (also aligned correctly) on top of that, and secure it by tightening a nut on the stud, just finger tight. I am usually working on my car alone so this takes a bit of strength and control put the rest of the studs through the strut tower and plate and put the remaining nuts on these studs slide the axle through the hub attach the balljoint. sometimes you need to jack up on the control arm to get the ball joint seated and to be able to turn the nut on the end (YOUR CAR HAS TO BE PROPERLY SUPPORTED ON JACKSTANDS) attach the tie rod. you may have to get in the car and "steer" the car so the tie rod is in a good position to be attached to the knuckle slide rotor on studs attach brake caliper (which reminds me, dont hit the brakes when the caliper is off your car) put the axle nut on finger tight turn the car on and have someone step on the brakes or wedge something against the brake pedal tighten the axle nut to 118 foot pounds (really just put alot of your weight on a larger breaker bar) make sure everything is tight Torque specs are as follows: Ball joint: 40 Ft*lbs Tie Rod end nut 22Ft*lbs and then another 120 degrees I dont have a torque wrench. I go by feel. I hope you can make sense of this. Did you check to see that your axle was in the transmission all the way? I havent had experience with removing/installing an axle. I'll read up on my haynes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 For installing the axle, it says to take a screwdriver and hammer and tap the CV housing (triangular metal part on the inboard side of the axle) and once your done, tug on it to make sure its not gonna come out. I guess you can feel the difference between the axle moving and the axle hitting the end of the splined receiver. Does anyone know if the CV joint is able to come out of the CV housing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karrkrazzie Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 I am just real worried i broke something... although maybe not... The only thing holding my strut assembly on right now is the tie rod... and it is rotated 90 degrees so that the asembly is just laying on the ground. and it has turned and twisted and got really stretched out when i decompressed the spring on accident... because i wasnt really thinking at the time... I am thinking i may have to replace the inner and outer part of the tie rod just because i am afraid i screwed something up. One last question...(on top of all the others)... If i can compress the strut back into itself, does that mean it is not bent? Let me know if this makes any sense at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 this sounds like the car in the junkyard I punsished. I was getting the knuckle out and took it down to the tie rod and didnt have the tool to get it out. I ended up coming back the next day with the right tool...a hacksaw. lol While I dont think this is good, I dont know if you hurt much, on the tie rod. Just check to see that its not bent and the inner boot is still in good condition. Check the outer tie rod boot as well. For the strut question, if you can push it all the way down and it comes back up, I would say its good. If it doesnt come back up, it may be worn, but it will still work. If you have alot of trouble pushing it down, or you get to a tough spot, I would say that its busted and time to replace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karrkrazzie Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 I'm just hopin for the best... my brother has a couple friends coming over thursday to help us out we are hoping to get everything lined up and into place, when we were originally trying to get it lined up we did not put a jack underneath the strut like everyone is saying that you need to in most cases. so maybe that was part of the problem. It is still just really weird to be that is seemed like the control arm was just too short for it to work at all And by the way.... Thank you everyone for your help. i really appreciate it... I have only been on this forum for about a week, I hope i am not making an annoyance of myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 I dunno, its been a while and sometimes it seems tough but i really remember being like "How the hell am I gonna get that ball joint in that hole??" Its the part that takes the second most amount of strength and effort right behind hoisting the assembled knuckle up in the strut tower with one hand while tightening the nut with the other. But yeah I knew it came out of there, so it had to fit back in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karrkrazzie Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Which is my exact thought... except the fact in this case it broke into two while driving so i have no idea what could have or may have gotten screwed up... I just think it is weird... in the alignment shop for new struts and alignment on tuesday, and ball joint just breaks into two with no warning on friday, I didnt think that usually happens without some warning signs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 They probably should have been able to tell if a balljoint was going to fail...so thats strange Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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