Jasonz34 Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 Getting back to what this thread started about Does anyone live near the St. Catherines GM plant? Maybe see if you can get a tour or get a tour setup for our next w-body meet. Something. I've heard and seen rumors for ever about the LQ1 having 280 hp originally but I have yet to see any proof. As for the transmission I believe it was the high RPMs that they couldn't handle. I say it's time to put this rumor to sleep. Either it's true or not. And we need real proof. If no one can find writen or displayed information from GM then I'm sorry... it's not true. I have a hard time believing it mainly because GM's new LY7 that ben brought up. Why would it only produce 260 or 265 hp while the LQ1 with 15 year old technology produce 280? Maybe at first they thought it would but soon realized it wouldn't. Someone find something! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandPrix34 Posted August 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 well I TRIED to organize a mass GM email question bombardment but everyone in here just laughed it off and brushed it aside....(thread search LQ1 Revolution) I HONESTLY TRIED SO HARD for all of us LQ1er's who AcTUALLY CARE to dig deeper and deeper...i pulled an ALL NIGHTER to finally find that website i posted at the beginning of this topic.. 1st off, i emailed GM and some EX engineers around the 80s-90s i found thru MASSIVE research and I am yet to get a response from either... 2nd of all I ALSO found a website on the tranny info (do a thread search TRANNY INFO) it says that the 440 (4T60) was being destroyed by the CADILLAC ALLANTE NOT THE LQ1...so there's something to put in your pipe and smoke... well i did ALL I CAN DO for the Forum....and ima continue to do some more research but on a more personal level for my own personal satisfaction and curiosity just becuz i can... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonz34 Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 2nd of all I ALSO found a website on the tranny info (do a thread search TRANNY INFO) it says that the 440 (4T60) was being destroyed by the CADILLAC ALLANTE NOT THE LQ1...so there's something to put in your pipe and smoke... Like I said... I believe.... and it was probably just some bs i heard about it not being able to handle the rpms. once again that's an internet resource, on a 4T60 not 4T60e. Still... until we can prove that the LQ1 had 280hp we're not even sure it was tuned down for the transmission. What else is there to do but try to go tto that plant? Should we ask grass fire to help us organize something? lol!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegeta Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 Why does it matter? Is this going to be in the next edition of trivial pursuit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonz34 Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 Why does it matter? Is this going to be in the next edition of trivial pursuit? To find out where they took the power from. And so I can stop finding these rumor posts on every LQ1 forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 Why does it matter? Is this going to be in the next edition of trivial pursuit? I need the info for when I go to hollywood squares next month Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegeta Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 Ok, then why does it matter where they took the power from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91GranSport Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 I can't really help you out on that, I live way on the other side of Canada. However, I really don't doubt it at all that it originally had 280HP. Just remember, that prior to killing off the ZR-1, GM was able to produce the "Black Widow LT-5" that was a 475HP version of the "regular" 405HP LT-5. Unfortunately, this motor never ended up on the last ZR-1s that were built. So, I would believe that the 3.4L Twin Cam was originally developed to be 280HP, but I think that GM detuned it for two reasons: 1. It can't be too powerful otherwise it would embarass other 6-cylinder and 8-cylinder engines. 2. It can't produce too much torque otherwise GM would have to seriously beef up their transmissions. Other than what's already mentioned, I think those would be the two obvious reasons why GM didn't build the engine with massive horsepower and torque. Also, the reason why GM doesn't build their new DOHC multi-valve engines to have as much horsepower is because horsepower isn't their only goal. They also want to keep a reliable engine that's fuel efficient and inexpensive to manufacture. As far as easy maintenance, screw it. They want us coming back to their dealerships, right? Getting back to what this thread started about Does anyone live near the St. Catherines GM plant? Maybe see if you can get a tour or get a tour setup for our next w-body meet. Something. I've heard and seen rumors for ever about the LQ1 having 280 hp originally but I have yet to see any proof. As for the transmission I believe it was the high RPMs that they couldn't handle. I say it's time to put this rumor to sleep. Either it's true or not. And we need real proof. If no one can find writen or displayed information from GM then I'm sorry... it's not true. I have a hard time believing it mainly because GM's new LY7 that ben brought up. Why would it only produce 260 or 265 hp while the LQ1 with 15 year old technology produce 280? Maybe at first they thought it would but soon realized it wouldn't. Someone find something! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91GranSport Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 What the hell is the LY7? Damn these RPOs! Let's keep it simple: 3800 TPI V-6 3800 Series I 3800 Series II Supercharged 3800 Series II 3400 SFI 3100 SFI 2.8 MPFI 3.1 MPFI Sheeeeeit, all those RPOs are driving me nuts! I have a hard time believing it mainly because GM's new LY7 that ben brought up. Why would it only produce 260 or 265 hp while the LQ1 with 15 year old technology produce 280? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91GranSport Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 Hey dude, much respect to you for going out of your way for 3.4L Twin Cam enthusiasts. I can't say I'm much of an enthusiast since I've never owned that motor but I have always been an enthusiast of DOHC multi-valve motors. Keep up the good work. By the way, you mention that the 4T60 was running into problems in the Cadillac Allante. What engine was in the Cadillac Allante anyways? I'm guessing either the 4.9L OHV engine or the early 4.6L Northstar. well I TRIED to organize a mass GM email question bombardment but everyone in here just laughed it off and brushed it aside....(thread search LQ1 Revolution) I HONESTLY TRIED SO HARD for all of us LQ1er's who AcTUALLY CARE to dig deeper and deeper...i pulled an ALL NIGHTER to finally find that website i posted at the beginning of this topic.. 1st off, i emailed GM and some EX engineers around the 80s-90s i found thru MASSIVE research and I am yet to get a response from either... 2nd of all I ALSO found a website on the tranny info (do a thread search TRANNY INFO) it says that the 440 (4T60) was being destroyed by the CADILLAC ALLANTE NOT THE LQ1...so there's something to put in your pipe and smoke... well i did ALL I CAN DO for the Forum....and ima continue to do some more research but on a more personal level for my own personal satisfaction and curiosity just becuz i can... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heza Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 What the hell is the LY7? Damn these RPOs! Let's keep it simple: 3800 TPI V-6 3800 Series I 3800 Series II Supercharged 3800 Series II 3400 SFI 3100 SFI 2.8 MPFI 3.1 MPFI Sheeeeeit, all those RPOs are driving me nuts! I have a hard time believing it mainly because GM's new LY7 that ben brought up. Why would it only produce 260 or 265 hp while the LQ1 with 15 year old technology produce 280? now doubt...what is the LY7?? 3800 SC Series III? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 What the hell is the LY7? Damn these RPOs! Let's keep it simple: Awww, do we really want to let the import guys be the only ones with cryptic acronym engine names? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomeoZ34 Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 Isn't the LY7 the new Global V6? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokesGTP Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 I've really been thinking about this and I think GM just made a huge mistake. They originally came up with this idea " hey guys, lets make a DOHC front wheel drive monster V-6 pushing near 300hp!" They started work on it assuming Hydramatic would be able to handle it. Probably 2 years of development and tons of man hours went into the design and planning and whatnot and then Hydramatic realized they couldn't handle it. Now this is where it got interesting, after all of this time coming up with this new high tech V-6 that cost a ton of money to produce they couldn't let it go to waste. They detuned and put it in about 10% or so of the W-bodies. Now don't you think that if GM didn't originally have plans of this motor being very fast that they would have just used the L27 (Series 1 3800)? Would have been much cheaper and easier and would have eased them into later exploitation of that engine . If they spent 2 minutes on the 3800 they could have came out with a series II back in 90' or 91'. I don't really know but thats just what I think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegeta Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 the LY7 is the 3.6 DOHC. FWD, RWD, AWD setup, plus turbo versions. VVT for emissions use only AFAIK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted August 19, 2003 Report Share Posted August 19, 2003 The reason the Z34 got the 3.4 DOHC was to directly combat the Taurus SHO. if it had a 3800, the SHO would have murdered it. the SHO was popular, lets copy it and see if we can make $$$, same sport sedan look, more ground effects, "basically" the same DOHC V6 motor, etc. so they tried. Lets face it, it is certain the motor can have 280hp. but a 280hp Lumina would have murdered their corvette, which wouldnt look good. that is why is was tuned down. adn there are tons of things that can be done to adjust power made, look at the 5.7L V8, it ranges from 285hp(LT1) to 405hp(Ls6) and it even went lower than 285, im just taking semi recent. they can build trannys. there is no problem with that, they could have done it. but a Lumina spanking a vette makes the vette look real bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian89gp Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Hasn't it clicked in anybodys heads that the thing was a PROTOTYPE. In all of history, think of one production engine that was faster/better then its prototype? Bet you can't. The L67 was suppisdly spinning at 7000, woop-de-shit, that knowldege does L67 owners no good at all. Modding their CURRENT engine is what does the good. The SHO motor supposidly spun at an ungodly 9 or 10k, but does that knowledge do any good? Doubtful. A prototype is meant to prove an engine design and in turn isn't meant to be reliable. Your time should be spent on building what you have now, not finding out specs for something you don't have. It has been proven many a times how to get 280 at the crank by people that have actually done it. Now if you want to find out for curisoity sake, or maybe historical purposes then go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91cutty Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Imagine taking your already increadibly unreliable 3.4 DOHC and adding 80 MORE HP! It would probably self-destruct at 50k! It would be sweet if they made a fwd variant of the DOHC inline 6 they use in trail-blazers. I heard they ran that motor full throttle for 200k km's without an oil-change. (Probably wouldn't fit sideways in an engine bay of a passenger car though so that kinda makes the idea useless huh?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91GranSport Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 I agree with you on most of what you say except for a few things: 1. The LT-1/LT-4 is totally different from the LS-1/LS-6. You can't compare the two because the LS-1/LS-6 is a completely new engine, while the LT-1/LT-4 is based on the same 350cid V-8 that's been around since the '60s and '70s. 2. I don't think GM would have been able to build a FWD transmission that would have been able to fit in a W-Body and at the same time handle that much power. Even right this moment, their 4T65-E/HD is capable of handling no more than 300lb-ft of torque, any more than that and it'll blow. Many Gen2 W-Body cars with the L67 are having problems with their trannies blowing up because of the added stress. The reason the Z34 got the 3.4 DOHC was to directly combat the Taurus SHO. if it had a 3800, the SHO would have murdered it. the SHO was popular, lets copy it and see if we can make $$$, same sport sedan look, more ground effects, "basically" the same DOHC V6 motor, etc. so they tried. Lets face it, it is certain the motor can have 280hp. but a 280hp Lumina would have murdered their corvette, which wouldnt look good. that is why is was tuned down. adn there are tons of things that can be done to adjust power made, look at the 5.7L V8, it ranges from 285hp(LT1) to 405hp(Ls6) and it even went lower than 285, im just taking semi recent. they can build trannys. there is no problem with that, they could have done it. but a Lumina spanking a vette makes the vette look real bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91GranSport Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Dude, relax. We're just curious about the true origin and output of the 3.4L Twin Cam. What i'm truly interested in, is finding out how to make the 3.4L Twin Cam more reliable, easier to maintain and most of how to bring more power out of it. Hasn't it clicked in anybodys heads that the thing was a PROTOTYPE. In all of history, think of one production engine that was faster/better then its prototype? Bet you can't. The L67 was suppisdly spinning at 7000, woop-de-shit, that knowldege does L67 owners no good at all. Modding their CURRENT engine is what does the good. The SHO motor supposidly spun at an ungodly 9 or 10k, but does that knowledge do any good? Doubtful. A prototype is meant to prove an engine design and in turn isn't meant to be reliable. Your time should be spent on building what you have now, not finding out specs for something you don't have. It has been proven many a times how to get 280 at the crank by people that have actually done it. Now if you want to find out for curisoity sake, or maybe historical purposes then go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegeta Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 How to make the incredibly unreliable DOHC reliable. But first, how to make the incredibly slow 3.1 fast. Throw it off a cliff. Change the oil. If its an auto, get rid of the auto. Watch the belt, and change it every 60k if you drive it normal. Every 30k if you race it. Replace the oil pump drive o ring with a high temp version. Silicon it if you want. Make a lower intake gasket out of metal instead of plastic, with a better sealing rubber (i hope to make some). Oh, BTW, I could tell you how to make the 3.1 fast, but this isn't the thread. I just had to make a remark for someone else's ignorant comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian89gp Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Dude, relax. We're just curious about the true origin and output of the 3.4L Twin Cam. What i'm truly interested in, is finding out how to make the 3.4L Twin Cam more reliable, easier to maintain and most of how to bring more power out of it. Then go for it, as that is for curiosity's sake. Btw, in 2 years from now and you have seen this 280hp topic at least 50 times, you might understand some of the frustration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillR2K Posted August 21, 2003 Report Share Posted August 21, 2003 Well I have heard of the rumors of the 280 hp engine way before i knew bout this site, its not so hard to see, i mean my 91 Z34 would have anihalated an 91 IROC, if the LQ1 had 280hp, so yah i do believe the engine exists, now if we could find the specs of that engine, we could easiely tune our DOHC's to get more HP GM always detunes production cars, anyways just because of the VETTE, mark my words no other GM car will ever out produce horsepower than the Vette of the Same year, it simply wont happen, EVEN th NEW CTS V had to be detuned to 400hp vs the 405 of the Z06 camaros and firebirds have always been detuned, lol except for the SNEAKY GN and turbo trans am's of the early 90's only cars from GM to ever be quicker than the Vette of the same year, but it was because BUICK which developed both engines, were sneaky as hell lol, the Cyclone and Typhoon im not so sure bout, but im im almost srue the vette was faster, but yah, We DOHC people need more aftermarket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandPrix34 Posted August 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2003 all i can say is...im happy! My topics have generated more discusssions than the California Recall... well, maybe not, but i truly enjoy people from all walks of life discussing wat's in my engine bay right now...a DOHC.. I have changed my stance on the DOHC...Brian and Vegeta, you guys are plainly and simply RIGHT!! It doesn't matter how it was achieved, the goal and mystery is HOW TO achieve that mark now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91GranSport Posted August 21, 2003 Report Share Posted August 21, 2003 I know it gets annoying after a while, but it's still quite a mystery for some of us, especially 3.4L Twin Cam owners. Hell, I don't even own a 3.4L Twin Cam but I'm just curious as to whether or not this is true. I'm not one to assume, but if I were, I'd guess it'd be true. Then go for it, as that is for curiosity's sake. Btw, in 2 years from now and you have seen this 280hp topic at least 50 times, you might understand some of the frustration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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