Slade901 Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 Now.. the no start condition.. Does the engine even turns over? First, the starter solenoid/starter turns the engine over when your start the ignition switch. If so, you mean the engine just spins and spins (because of starter solenoid/starter) but the engine would start at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hootymo Posted July 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 yea it turns over just fine and just sits there and spins. its getting fuel because i hear the fuel pump, its getting spark because the coils and ICM were all changed. its got a crank signal because i just changed the crank sensor. i dont know what else it can be... please help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldsmoBeast Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 are you sure the ECM is good? just a thought....what about the new crankshaft sensor? does the car even sound like its GOING to start? like it spins but do you hear the engine trying to come alive? could it be a timing thing? i don't know i'm just throwing these ideas in the air.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slade901 Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 You mentioned you replaced the coil and spark plug wires. How did you test if you have spark going to your spark plug wires? One way to test it is to use a spark tester where you disconnect the spark plug wire from the spark plug and connect the "spark plug tester" to the end of the spark plug wire and clip it to the engine block metal part or ground. When you crank the engine, you will see a spark coming from that spark plug tester if there is a spark going to that spark plug wire. I've come across some info/issues when replacing the crankshaft sensor that even if you put a brand new crankshaft sensor, the car would still not start. It ended up putting a very thin metal "washer" of some sort and it changed its gap (distance) and then the engine starts fine. BTW, make sure that tailpipe is not blocked by some potato of some sort Don't forget to check for any blown fuses in the fuse block and perhaps fuses in the engine compartment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hootymo Posted July 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 all fuses are good, and i used autozone to check the coils and everything. they came up perfect. i am truly stumped. the engine doesnt even seem like it wants to start at all. maybe i have a clogged fuel line or something? i have no clue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 spray a little carb cleaner down the intake. Ive been here before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hootymo Posted July 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 well i tried the carb cleaner and starter fluid and the car cranked right up. it ran just fine until i stopped spraying the stuff down the intake! so... i am led to believe now that i have no fuel getting to the engine, so i changed the fuel filter and still no start. it hiccups a little but wont quite start. i then checked the little valve on the fuel rail to see if any fuel would spurt up at me and nothing, just air. what could it be? i also did a test to see if there was any fuel going through the return line and theres nothing! so... if the fuel pump is working and it is pumping fuel to the engine but its not going BACK into the fuel tank, then where is it going? because it sure isnt starting the engine! i need some help here... thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 I assume you have gas in the tank...how long does the pump run in the "on" position (engine not running)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hootymo Posted July 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 it runs just like it should. the tank is full. the pump sounds just fine... im stumped again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slade901 Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 Looks like you have a defective fuel pump. It could be also a defective fuel pressure regulator but more likely the fuel pump. If there is a schraeder valve on your fuel rail then you can just get a fuel pressure gauge tester but if there is no schraeder valve on the fuel rail then you can try to rig and connect a T-fitting on the incoming fuel line and connect the fuel pressure gauge tester on it as well. Be careful when you lower down your tank. You might want to try to empty your gas tank as much as possible before lowering the gas tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hootymo Posted July 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 nah the fuel pump is fine. i disconnected the fuel line at the fuel filter and then primed the fuel pump, fuel sprayed out just like it should. i then disconnected the line at the fuel rail just before the pressure regulator and no fuel at all coming out of it when i prime the pump... so that can only mean a kinked or clogged fuel line. so thats what i gotta fix. i definitely appreciate everyone's help here in diagnosing this problem, it saved me a LOT of time and a lot of money!! thanks a lot! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
god910 Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 ...fuel sprayed out just like it should. LOL So, is 12" = 15 Psi. 24"= 40 Psi. Or what. Just because it flows w/ NO restriction in the line doesn't mean it will flow w/ the line and filter hooked up. Not saying the pump is messed up, but Volume and Pressure are two WAY different animals. And both are quite important. If you have acess to an air compressor I would get an air gun w/ a rubber outlet and press it to the line (w/ both ends unhooked) and give it a few blasts. If anything is in there it will blow out, or knock the gun off the end. Keep the faith we'll have her running in no time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rglguy Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 holy shit, sounds liek tghe prob i had once weith the previouse car delta 88 with 3800 code c engine lol im not getting into that tho....does it work now or what, come on i read 3 oages for a to be continued? lol i hate them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 OK, you have fuel pressure. Are your injectors pulsing? A noid light is the correct tool for checking to see if they are firing, but I'm sure there's a way to nigger-rig it too, a noid light is only a bulb that flashes when pulsed. Maybe just a test light would work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slade901 Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 ...fuel sprayed out just like it should. LOL So, is 12" = 15 Psi. 24"= 40 Psi. Or what. Just because it flows w/ NO restriction in the line doesn't mean it will flow w/ the line and filter hooked up. Not saying the pump is messed up, but Volume and Pressure are two WAY different animals. And both are quite important. If you have acess to an air compressor I would get an air gun w/ a rubber outlet and press it to the line (w/ both ends unhooked) and give it a few blasts. If anything is in there it will blow out, or knock the gun off the end. Keep the faith we'll have her running in no time. Fuel pump usually don't just stop pumping fuel when it fails. It will at least pump fuel and you will see fuel squirting but does not mean that it has enough pressure to supply the fuel rails then to the injectors. Once the fuel filter is connected back, the fuel pressure reduces further. The fuel pump may have failed because its internal o-ring is worn and letting fuel leak out within the fuel pump itself. Check the fuel line for kinks or clogged line just in case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hootymo Posted July 15, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 well the fuel line is ok, so now im convinced the fuel pump is to blame here. it would make sense, its the ONLY thing left that makes sense. i understand what someone else was saying here about how there may be just enough power to pump the fuel out a little bit but with it all hooked up the fuel pump, in its malfunctioning state, doesnt get the fuel all the way up to where it should be going. so... time to drop the tank... AGAIN. thanks everyone for all your support! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldsmoBeast Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 wow, you're going to be reeking of gasoline by the time this is over jussst kidding...but on a more serious note, would you like to change my fuel pump while you're at it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hootymo Posted July 15, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 LOL sure, only 500 bucks please... i need the money real bad :-P i just hope this finally cures it. does anyone know where i can get the whole fuel pump assembly? i can only seem to find the pump itself and the sending unit in parts stores. if anyone has one they could sell me for cheap (or semi-cheap :-P) i will take it off your hands! thanks again for everyone's help :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slade901 Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 You just need the fuel pump and make sure it comes with a strainer as well. Make you empty the gas tank before you lower the gas tank itself (it would be very easy to lower and install a gas tank when it is empty). Have a fire extinguisher and water hose ready. Disconnect the negative battery cable. The hardest part when removing/installing the gas tank is the rubber tubing (filler neck) where you fill the tank with fuel. Once I have to drop down the gas tank because the resistive wire in the fuel sending unit was bad. The resistive wire adjusts the resistance value according to the float position (hence controls what you see on your gas gauge empty to full). Autoparts store did not carry the part I need and I went to the junkyard and told them that I need the sending unit float component (with the resistance element) for $50. Guess what, they remove a whole working gas tank (including the whole sending unit)and thats what they gave me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hootymo Posted July 15, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 ive done this a few times already with this car, taking the gas tank off isnt so much of a pain as it is time consuming. i do however need the whole assembly though, because the lines on top of the tank are rusted and leaking a little bit. so still if anyone has anything please let me know, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hootymo Posted July 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 anybody know why the fuel pump is deciding not to be powerful enough now to push the gas far enough to the engine?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 replace it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slade901 Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 The pumps o-ring is worn and it is internally partially leaking fluid when it tries to build up pressure or it is partially clogged up. When I replaced my fuel pump, the filter strainer was made up of aluminum and it broke into pieces and thats what causing it to clogged up. The replacement fuel pump filter strainer was more like of a plastic mesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baddflash Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 anybody know why the fuel pump is deciding not to be powerful enough now to push the gas far enough to the engine?? Are you saying that the new one doesn't work either?? You have the line disconnected from the front?? If so then you have a line problem somewhere if your lines are rusted then possibly rust caught in line that might be blocking the line once pressure is built up. :? :? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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