buying coilover parts separately & some questions

[Guest TurboSedan]

i know i started a thread on this awhile back but i can't find it....

 

anyways, as some of you know my Cutlass needs new coilovers and new rear struts. the threaded sleeves are siezed to the old KYB struts (which are totally blown as well). not only that, the sleeves and adjuster nuts are marked up pretty bad and look like total shit due to me trying to get them off the old struts i have brand new KYB GR-2 rear struts and brand new KYB rear strut mounts that i'm giving to Dan with the Cutlass when he buys it, but he can't install them until the coilover issue is figured out.

 

sooo...i need new threaded coilover sleeves and adjuster nuts. the springs and aluminum upper spring mounts i got with my TDC coilover kit are still good so i can just reuse those. to my surprise i found out that AFCO Racing sells their coilover parts separately! the question is, will they work?

 

here are the parts i need from AFCO Racing:

 

7" sleeves sold separately - $17.55/each (i don't think 7" sleeves would be needed, although you could get the rear end of the car REALLY high with them!

http://www.secureperformanceorder.com/afcostore/getproduct.cfm?CategoryID=16&ClassID=207&SubclassID=1007&ProductID=853

 

5" sleeves sold separately - $12.79/each

http://www.secureperformanceorder.com/afcostore/getproduct.cfm?CategoryID=16&ClassID=207&SubclassID=1007&ProductID=852

 

adjuster nut sold separately - $14.06/each

http://www.secureperformanceorder.com/afcostore/getproduct.cfm?CategoryID=16&ClassID=207&SubclassID=1015&ProductID=851

 

they list their sleeves as having a 2.055" I.D. so i measured the strut body diameter of my brand new rear KYB GR-2 struts and it looks like they come right out at 2.12" O.D. the big question is, can i hone the AFCO sleeves out .065"? it's such a small amount it shoud be possible right? i sure hope so, because spending $54 on these parts will save Dan a helluva lot of money as opposed to spending $310 for a complete kit from FFP. not to mention i've heard it's taking FFP at least 6 weeks to ship out their kits.

 

i have a hunch FFP actually buys their parts from AFCO Racing and then hones out the sleeves to fit the KYB GR-2 strut body (that is pure speculation on my part). of course, you can't just buy everything needed for a rear coilover kit directly from AFCO Racing and save a bunch of money - this is because you'd still need an upper spring mount (and FFP probably manufactures that themselves in-house). and FWIW, FFP's upper mount looks like a really nice piece. wayyyy nicer than the solid aluminum TDC upper mount i have.

 

as a side note, for $21.57 they also sell spanner wrenches for the adjuster nuts which would make height adjustments really easy:

http://www.secureperformanceorder.com/afcostore/getproduct.cfm?CategoryID=16&ClassID=207&SubclassID=1005&ProductID=4739

 

as far as i know FFP does not include a spanner wrench with their kits (which is stupid).

 

anyways, if anyone can tell me weather or not i can hone out those 2.055" I.D sleeves .065" please let me know!

 

thanks!

[19Cutlass94]

I would imagine you would be able to. I mean its ~ 1/16" ( .0625 ) and it would be a snug fit even if you didnt hone them out. If the sleeves have enough metal there to do it safely, I really dont see why you wouldnt be able to.

[Guest TurboSedan]

kick ass.

[sl3196]

kick ass is right!

[CSI_MuNkY]

It would be REALLY kool if we could buy all the parts from them... talk about saving a small fortune...

I'm considering Helds on all 4 corners. I e-mails about the price and got this reply...

 

Stage 1 front is $350, Stage 2 is $650, this includes modified factory strut housings, coil over hardware, spring rate of your choice and KYB inserts. Stage 1 for the rear is $290 and Stage 2 is $490. All coil overs come with spring rates to match your driving style

 

My plan right now is to go with the stage 1 kit, because I can get the struts for less than the difference of $300... (I think I can get them for less than $80 a pop)

Is the upper spring mount the only part you would need to find or make? maybe a lower spring plate too?

If so maybe I will buy up all the peices and draw up a couple plates in CAD and send them off to my friend back home (has access to a CNC machine)

 

Jamie

[Guest TurboSedan]

Is the upper spring mount the only part you would need to find or make?..... If so maybe I will buy up all the peices and draw up a couple plates in CAD and send them off to my friend back home (has access to a CNC machine)

 

it looks like it would be easy to make an upper mount (maybe...i don't have any experience with that stuff). it's a pretty simple piece though (the TDC mount, NOT the FFP mount which has a poly insert). if i can find a pic of my TDC upper mount i'll post it here. if you're really serious about making copies with CAD/CNC, i might even send you mine to copy (so long as you didn't have it forever lol). this would save us W-body owners alot of money on a rear coilover kit by skipping the middle man (FFP). however, FFP's upper spring mount IS superior IMO.

 

maybe a lower spring plate too?

 

nah, you can just buy that from AFCO Racing. the adjuster nut doubles as the lower spring mount.

[Guest TurboSedan]

btw, i plan on ordering the sleeves and adjuster nuts from AFCO Racing very soon. i'll keep you guys updated on how it works out.

[Guest TurboSedan]

Is the upper spring mount the only part you would need to find or make?

If so maybe I will buy up all the peices and draw up a couple plates in CAD and send them off to my friend back home (has access to a CNC machine)

 

Jamie

 

i hope this works out, because i've been hearing some bad things about FFP just lately. mostly about them taking like 4 months to ship out orders.

[CSI_MuNkY]

I'll let you know what my friend says about doing the parts... he can be a real pain to get a hold of, and because I moved 4 hours from home its not like I can just show up on his door step...

 

Jamie

 

 

 

[Guest TurboSedan]

ok just keep us updated.

 

if anyone else can do something like this let us know.

 

this is the only pic i have of the upper spring mount (probably doesn't help much)

 

 

it's just a round solid aluminum piece that fits between the strut mount and top of the spring. the top side of the mount has a lip that protrudes up into the hole in the strut mount, and the bottom of the mount has a lip that protrudes down in between the coils. i almost wonder if the spring mount even needs to be there - just let the spring go up against the strut mount itself. i think pwmin may have done this. if so maybe he can chime in on how that worked.

 

if we could bypass FFP & Held and buy our own stuff separately through AFCO Racing that would save us alot of money. although you'd have to get the sleeves honed out yourself or have a shop do it for you. and i'm not even 100% sure that's possible yet. i'll know soon enough though. AFCO Racing also sells the coilover springs separately with a huge selection of spring rates. i'll have to check the inner diameter of my springs and spring length but i'm sure AFCO would have what we would need available.

[pwmin]

i almost wonder if the spring mount even needs to be there - just let the spring go up against the strut mount itself. i think pwmin may have done this. if so maybe he can chime in on how that worked.

 

thats exactly what i did. i thought it was ghetto (well, i still guess it is ), and i tried to order the upper mount from michael, but he said he wouldnt sell the mount separately, so i just said screw it and ive had it on there for a year and probably 30K with no problems. if you order those, you should measure the od of the sleaves. that way, we'll know better if theres enough material to hone those out a little (i.e. if the od's for the hms/ffp/afco sleeves are the same)

[Guest TurboSedan]

if you order those, you should measure the od of the sleaves. that way, we'll know better if theres enough material to hone those out a little (i.e. if the od's for the hms/ffp/afco sleeves are the same)

 

will do. i'm probably just going to order one sleeve at first just to see if it can be done.

 

thanks for the info Paul.

[CSI_MuNkY]

If anyone has a pic of the upper spring mount off the assembly, please speak up...

I had a different part in mind, I was thinking it was a specail mount w/ spring mount to replace the stock strut mount...

 

If its just a peice to go between the strut mount and the spring, that might be even easier to fab up...

 

If anyone has pics of just the spring mount I can e-mail it to my friend and see what he says about making something similar (not a copy, want to avodi copywrite laws and crap)

 

Jamie

[pwmin]

i know its not what you wanted, but its a pic of all the ffp coilover parts from the website

[CSI_MuNkY]

ok...

I've photoshopped 2 pics together and labeled them...

 

 

So does Part B replace A, or is it bolted inside of A?

Of course I'm assuming B is the part we are looking for, lol... if thats the case is the black part sunken? I would think so, giving the spring somewhere to seat, but I could be wrong...

 

Jamie

[Guest TurboSedan]

ok...

I've photoshopped 2 pics together and labeled them...

 

 

So does Part B replace A, or is it bolted inside of A?

 

i am not too familiar with the FFP kit, but aftter looking at the pic i'm wondering if the FFP upper spring mount actually doubles as the strut mount? that is obviously not the way it is with my TDC coilover kit. IF the FFP upper spring mount doesn't double as the strut mount, then yes part B replaces part A. IOW they do the same thing. as you can tell the FFP mount (part is alot nicer with the poly insert....and would be much harder to copy or design something similar (not to mention copywright infringment if it were copied exactly). part A is the TDC mount, which is just solid aluminum. TDC (TwinDualCams.com) is loonnnnng out of business so i don't think you'd have to worry about copying it. as far as i know i am the only person that has TDC coilovers (i bought them wayyyy back in 2001).

 

Of course I'm assuming B is the part we are looking for, lol... if thats the case is the black part sunken? I would think so, giving the spring somewhere to seat, but I could be wrong...

 

having a mount made similar to the FFP mount would be really nice, ecspecially if you didn't have to spend money on buying new strut mounts (can anyone with the FFP coilver kit verify if the upper spring mount doubles as the strut mount?). BUT that would be much harder to design & make than copying the relatiely simple TDC mount like i have. which i don't really have a problem with by the way. it's noisy sometimes but people with the FFP kit complain of noise too.

[pwmin]

part B replaces A in the ffp (i'm almost positive; it has to), but in the old tdc's part A was used and that sleeve was inserted in pic A, but in my ghetto setup, i just reused the old mount, and i never complain of noise

[Guest TurboSedan]

part B replaces A in the ffp (i'm almost positive; it has to), but in the old tdc's part A was used and that sleeve was inserted in pic A, but in my ghetto setup, i just reused the old mount, and i never complain of noise

 

so the top of your spring went right up against the strut mount correct? with nothing in between them?

[CSI_MuNkY]

part B replaces A in the ffp (i'm almost positive; it has to), but in the old tdc's part A was used and that sleeve was inserted in pic A, but in my ghetto setup, i just reused the old mount, and i never complain of noise

 

so the top of your spring went right up against the strut mount correct? with nothing in between them?

 

If thats the case...

 

We could buy a peice of Poly Urathane and trim it to fit inside the OEM mount... that would cut down on noise, and would be fairly easy to fabricate....

 

OR...

 

We could take a stock strut mount and weld in a dish type thing for the spring to sit in and then line it with Poly... This would probably be the better idea, a little more work, but it would give the spring a little more stability

 

Thoughts?

 

Jamie

[pwmin]

so the top of your spring went right up against the strut mount correct? with nothing in between them?

 

correct

 

 

 

those seem like good ideas jaime. someone should definitely check into that with one of their old mounts if they still have them. in all reality, i did what i did with intentions of only using it temporarily but i havent had any problems, so i said to hell with it.

[Guest TurboSedan]

If thats the case...

 

We could buy a peice of Poly Urathane and trim it to fit inside the OEM mount... that would cut down on noise, and would be fairly easy to fabricate....

 

OR...

 

We could take a stock strut mount and weld in a dish type thing for the spring to sit in and then line it with Poly... This would probably be the better idea, a little more work, but it would give the spring a little more stability

 

Thoughts?

 

Jamie

 

the 1st idea may cause problems, since the coil spring can become completely unloaded (loose) during certain conditions like sharp U-turns, pulling into steep driveways etc not to mention when you raise the rear of the car and have it on jackstands. just having a piece of poly in there could fall out...unless maybe we used some strong adhesive to keep them in place of course. that actually might work pretty well.

 

i like the 2nd idea better, since welding the dish-type spring mount to the strut mount it would have no chance of falling out and yeah it would make the spring more stable.

 

 

[Guest TurboSedan]

someone should definitely check into that with one of their old mounts if they still have them.

 

like i mentioned earlier, i could supply my TDC spring mount to be copied. just as long as i could get it back within a couple weeks. i don't think anyone else has this peice but me. or i could just take it out and get pics & measurements of it. it's a really simple piece so just going by pics and measurments would probably work well enough to get one made up.

[patgizz]

josh. idea.

 

put the struts in the freezer and the sleeves in the oven then slide them together right quick-like. this is how they fit piston pins into connecting rods, they heat them up in a "rod oven" and slide the pin in and then the rod end shrinks around the pin

[Guest TurboSedan]

josh. idea.

 

put the struts in the freezer and the sleeves in the oven then slide them together right quick-like. this is how they fit piston pins into connecting rods, they heat them up in a "rod oven" and slide the pin in and then the rod end shrinks around the pin

 

DAMN! i'll definately try that! thanks Pat

[19Cutlass94]

Only problem I see with that is trying to get them off when needed, but then again 1/16" isnt all too much either..