buying coilover parts separately & some questions

[CSI_MuNkY]

someone should definitely check into that with one of their old mounts if they still have them.

 

like i mentioned earlier, i could supply my TDC spring mount to be copied. just as long as i could get it back within a couple weeks. i don't think anyone else has this peice but me. or i could just take it out and get pics & measurements of it. it's a really simple piece so just going by pics and measurments would probably work well enough to get one made up.

 

Pics should suffice

Q-ball just replaced his mounts with new Monroe ones, he has aggreed to allow me to use his old one to toy with, I'll be picking it up when I get back to town...

 

BTW... that freezer/oven idea is brilliant!!

 

Jamie

[Guest TurboSedan]

Only problem I see with that is trying to get them off when needed, but then again 1/16" isnt all too much either..

 

i'll probably lube the strut body with anti-sieze before sliding the sleeve on. either way i'm not afraid to hone them out a litle if i have too.

[Guest TurboSedan]

 

5" sleeves sold separately - $12.79/each

http://www.secureperformanceorder.com/afcostore/getproduct.cfm?CategoryID=16&ClassID=207&SubclassID=1007&ProductID=852

 

 

i just ordered two of these 5" sleeves. hope they work!

[patgizz]

for $13 each, you leave the sleeves on the old struts when you pitch them and get another new pair.

[Guest TurboSedan]

for $13 each, you leave the sleeves on the old struts when you pitch them and get another new pair.

 

yeah i won't even bother ecspecially after all the trouble i had trying to remove the old TDC sleeves from my olds struts...and those obviously didn't need the freezer/oven method to install since they came from TDC in the kit.

 

might as well just replace the sleeves every time i buy new struts...like every 3 years or so lol. $13/each is nothing.

[Guest TurboSedan]

FWIW i went ahead and priced the stuff available from AFCO Racing needed to build your own coilover kit:

 

PN# 20133 - C-O Adjuster Nut - Blue - $28.12 (two)

 

PN# 20134 - C-O Sleeve Aluminum - Threaded (5in.) Blue - $25.58 (two)

 

PN# 22250 - AFCOIL 12in. Coil-Over 250lb Rate (2 5/8in. I.D.) Yellow - $119.90 (two)

 

SubTotal: $173.60 (apparantly all US orders have $10 flat rate shipping so $183.60 TOTAL.

 

by comparison, the FFP kit is $326.99 (that includes their $17.00 flat rate shipping for US orders), BUT of course that includes their upper spring mount with poly insert, AND you wouldn't need to worry about honing the sleeves out yourself.

 

so the big question is of course, are the FFP upper spring mounts and hassle of honing out your own sleeves worth the extra $143.39? another advantage to AFCO Racing is that they have 28 spring rates to choose from ranging from 80lbs to 750lbs and they are all priced the same. of course, FFP might be able to give you this wide range of spring rate options as well if you request that. they probably can if my hunch that FFP buys their coilover parts from AFCO Racing (to resell for profit) is true.

 

if we can get a copy of my TDC upper spring mount made up, i think this would be a great $$ saving option to have. honing out the sleeves such a small amount should be EASY and only take a few minutes to do. like i mentioned earlier, i'll know for sure about this when i receive the sleeves i already ordered.

 

as a side note, FFP seems to be getting a bad reputation lately regarding their shipping times (someone said they have been waiting on their coilovers for 4 months!)

 

just something to think about.

 

 

[Guest TurboSedan]

so the top of your spring went right up against the strut mount correct? with nothing in between them?

 

correct

 

in all reality, i did what i did with intentions of only using it temporarily but i havent had any problems, so i said to hell with it.

 

i just looked at my new KYB strut mounts and seriously i don't see why there would be any problem having the spring rest right up against the strut mount. the strut mount is solid steel anyway and the bottom surface of the strut mount is flat (as is the top of the spring of course) so the spring would probably stay straight (IOW it wouldn't tilt). i'm going to try doing that just for the hell of it. besides, doing it this way the spring mount would no longer catch on my TDC aluminum spring mount lip and that would mean no more noises.

 

if it works like you said it did Paul then we wouldn't have to worry about an upper spring mount period. a complete coilover kit for $184 would kick ass.

 

maybe if it all worked out AFCO Racing would even do a group buy discount for us.

[97loudcut]

this is something for me to consider.. seeing as I will be lowering the car this spring.

[patgizz]

FYI you can get 12" 250# springs from summit for around $80 a pair - QA1 deals, made in USA, powdercoated, good stuff. i run them on the back of the 54.

[Guest TurboSedan]

FYI you can get 12" 250# springs from summit for around $80 a pair - QA1 deals, made in USA, powdercoated, good stuff. i run them on the back of the 54.

 

kick ass, they are cheaper AND they are silver (i don't like the yellow color of my TDC or AFCO Racing springs - kinda ricer-ish IMO). lots of options in spring rates too. however, they list the diameter as 2 & 1/2" whereas the AFCO springs are 2 & 5/8". only 1/8" difference of course but that might be a problem. i'll be checking the ID of my TDC springs when i have them out. the smaller diameter of the QA1 springs might actually be better.

[CSI_MuNkY]

So q-ball dropped off his old strut mounts (with struts still attached) its no shock he needed new ones...

 

Now that I have held a mount in my hands, I have a few questions...

-What does a new one cost? I'm just wondering if a new mount would be too expensive to attempt to modify.

If someone can get me some dimensions on the spring I can draw something up in CAD

 

-As for just letting the spring rest up against the mount, anyone have a pic of this? I have bad luck you see, and if I try that it WILL go wrong, lol.

 

-Does anyone have access to better quality pics of the FFP mount?

 

I'm going to be taking a closer look at mine this coming weekend, I can picture how the rears would look, but we would also have to make up separate plates for the front... no?

 

Jamie

[Guest TurboSedan]

-What does a new one cost? I'm just wondering if a new mount would be too expensive to attempt to modify.

If someone can get me some dimensions on the spring I can draw something up in CAD

 

my KYB rear strut mounts were $40 each from tirerack.com i'll get the length & ID of my TDC springs when i have them out (probably won't be until my stuff from AFCO shows up). i'll also measure and take pics of the TDC spring mount in case it ends up being needed. i think the length of the springs are 12" but a 14" spring might actually be better since the spring can be completely unloaded in certain situations like i mentioned earlier. i'm not sure if a 14" coilover spring would be available anywhere though; i haven't checked yet.

 

-As for just letting the spring rest up against the mount, anyone have a pic of this?

 

if Paul doesn't have one i'll get a pic of mine when i do it.

 

 

[CSI_MuNkY]

Sounds good

 

Jamie

[pwmin]

i dont have a pic, but i gotta put some snow tires on the front this week, so ill try to remember to take pix while its up in the air

[CSI_MuNkY]

Awesome...

in the mean time, if I can fid the time I will get the stock rear mounts in CAD...

 

Jamie

[Guest TurboSedan]

this thread kicks ass. i think we're making really good progress coming up with a great inexpensive and probably a better solution to FFP or Held rear coilovers. thanks to GTP_MuNkY, pwmin, patgizz and 19Cutlass94 for contributing! let's keep the ball rolling...i will post more info as soon as i can. i hope no one loses interest and this topic gets forgotten.

[CSI_MuNkY]

I'm not losing interest! Thats for sure... this could save me and a lot of ppl a lot of money (and maybe cause certain companies to lower prices)

 

Even my gf is somewhat interested since she found out how much money it could save me! lol

 

Jamie

[J]

your not supposed to use a spanner wrench for the FFP kits due to the fact he said you can't raise/lower it with wait on the car. So therefore you have to jack it up and u can spin it with your hand anyway. I hope this works out cuz i think one of my sleeves is starting to get fucked (real technical like)!

[patgizz]

josh, i might buy some new kyb's for the rear of my car(just cause i dunno how long the ones on there have been) and do this to mine as well. but i'll make my own top plate. i already have a design in my head, out of aluminum, and should be relatively simple to make seeing as i've made throttle body adapter plates and stuff like that before.

 

if i do this i dunno what i'll do with the FAF rear spring i have(i've got 2 actually)

 

 

[CSI_MuNkY]

but i'll make my own top plate. i already have a design in my head, out of aluminum

 

I'd actually like to see the ideas some people can come up with for this... as a group we could probably desgin one, dare I say... BETTER than the FFP one

 

Jamie

[Guest TurboSedan]

your not supposed to use a spanner wrench for the FFP kits due to the fact he said you can't raise/lower it with wait on the car. So therefore you have to jack it up and u can spin it with your hand anyway.

 

good point. i won't bother ordering that wrench then.

[pwmin]

stupid question: when you jack your car up, does the spring stay on the upper mount or just rest on the bottom? my biggest complaint about the coilovers vs the monoleaf is that when the rear is a full extension (or near there), the spring comes off the upper mount. and, with my car lowered i cant even get at the strut to use a spanner wrench without lifting it up.

[Guest TurboSedan]

stupid question: when you jack your car up, does the spring stay on the upper mount or just rest on the bottom? my biggest complaint about the coilovers vs the monoleaf is that when the rear is a full extension (or near there), the spring comes off the upper mount. and, with my car lowered i cant even get at the strut to use a spanner wrench without lifting it up.

 

my springs stay on the bottom mount resulting in a few inches of space between the top of the spring and the upper spring mount. btw that's why i mentioned earlier that a longer 14" spring might help with the problem of the spring becoming completely unloaded at full extension. although a longer spring might also cause unforseen problems?

 

this is my biggest complaint with coilovers as well. because when i lower the car back down, most of the time the spring won't seat into the TDC upper spring mount and it will catch on the lip:

 

 

when the spring catches on that lip (white arrow) it causes LOUD noises. then i have to raise the car again and carefully lower it back down making sure it seats correctly. every time i bring my car in to a shop (to mount/balance tires, alignment etc) i have to explain this problem to them this is one of the reasons i'd like to do away with the upper TDC spring mount altogether and just let the spring seat against the strut mount. yeah, the TDC upper spring mount design sucks balls if it were designed with a lower lip that was longer (protruded further down into the center of the coil) that would help alot i would think. besides that problem my coilovers don't make any noises AT ALL. i don't think this would be a problem with the FFP upper mount since i don't see any lip on them. BUT FFP coilover owners have complained about noises as well and i don't understand what the cause of the noises would come from? can anyone with FFP coilovers elaborate on that? maybe it's just because the poly mount they have squeaks?

[CSI_MuNkY]

 

I'd like to see a pic like that of the FFP units...

after looking at that pic again I'm wondering how good of an idea it is to rest the spring up against the stock mount, your still going to end up with alignment problems so your not fixing that problem, and I THINK the shape of the stock mount may distort the spring over time if its not sitting properly... (cause thats MY luck)

I think all the TDC mounts are missing is a cone shape on the mount to guide the spring into the seat...

when you have the strut at full extension how much space is there between the spring and seat? also, at full compression how much space do we have to allow for a cone inside the spring before it starts to hit the strut?

 

In all reality I think what we need is an aluminum seat with a cone for guiding, anyone with access to a lathe could do one up...

 

I'm gonna play with CAD a bit... I have a couple hours before I have to leave for work...

 

Jamie

[Guest TurboSedan]

yeah, the TDC upper spring mount design sucks balls if it were designed with a lower lip that was longer (protruded further down into the center of the coil) that would help alot i would think.

 

just to add to the possibly of improving on the design of the TDC upper spring mount....

 

the top of the TDC upper spring mount has a lip that protrudes upwards into the hole in the strut mount. sometimes the TDC upper spring mount will fall out of the strut mount and stay on top of the coilspring to "fix" this problem, maybe Jamie could design an upper spring mount by:

 

- tapping the hole in the strut mount and die the upper lip in the spring mount so they can thread together (and use some loc-tite)

 

.....or (probably a better idea)

 

- make an upper spring mount made out of steel and simply weld it to the strut mount

 

- and of course make the lower lip longer so it protruded further down into the coil spring to help guide the spring into the right place to avoid the spring not seating correctly and making loud noises as i mentioned above.

 

just some ideas.

 

btw i don't think any kind of poly between the top of the spring and the spring mount (or strut mount) would be necessary.