Brian P Posted October 3, 2002 Report Share Posted October 3, 2002 I want to build my stereo system better than it is, I have the following in my car currently: Alpine cassette deck with 1 set of REAR preouts and a 6 disc changer...35Wx4 etc 8" self powered kicker bass tube, hooked up with said preouts sony Xseries (XPLOD) 3 way 6x9's I think 65Wrms each, powered by deck 4" Rockford's in dash, powered by deck... Now here's the items I have, not installed: Pioneer 6.5" coaxials click HERE for specs, no I didnt get them off egay...PS I could have gotten a set of 6.5" rockfords for the same price, but they didnt seem to sound as good as the pioneer...should I get them? Alpine amp approx 45x2 Jensen amp 75x2 (I really don't want to use this 1) Pair of external Xovers I want the Pioneers in the door. My options are basically power the front door speakers OR the rear 6x9's with the amp (I'd like to eventually put 8" speakers in place of the 6x9's) The rest of the speakers will be powered by the deck....what other things can I consider? The amps will also have to share the same preout...is this a good idea? I havent checked the bass tube, but the alpine amp doesnt have a "pass" preamp so I'll have to use a splitter. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBuick Posted October 3, 2002 Report Share Posted October 3, 2002 IM me I'll tell you how to make it sound waaay better. PS I'm not kidding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegeta Posted October 3, 2002 Report Share Posted October 3, 2002 If you are gonna run 1 preout, get an EQ with more RCA outs. Post a price range cause I could just say PPI and Focal and be done with it:P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZMonte Posted October 3, 2002 Report Share Posted October 3, 2002 I have Pioneer Premiere 6x9's in the rear, Stock 5 1/4's up front running from a Panisonic Headunit to a Alpine 50x4 amp. then i have 2 pioneer Premiere 12's being pushed by 2 Crunch 300x1 amps. it sounds good, really good. If anything i would recomend a new Deck with 3 RCA outputs (Front, Rear, Sub)and run a 4 channel amp for your mids. Adding the amp and deck alone will make any speaker sound 1000x better. Make sure the 4channel amp has a internal corssover (adjusable) and you can fine tune the fronts and rears sepratly. front speakers are genneraly smaller so you want to adj. the crossover to eliminate the lower freq. sound so they don't distort. and the fronts usually require less power, so you will also want to back off the power on the amp to the fronts so the sound stays ballanced in the front and rear. leave the Trebble and bass on the deck zerroed out and do all the adjustments on the amp itself. my deck supports Subwoofer preouts so i can increase/decrease the sound levels on the Subs through the deck. but again if your subwoofer amp has a crossover play with it first then worry about adjusting the deck. Hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted October 3, 2002 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2002 If you are gonna run 1 preout, get an EQ with more RCA outs. Post a price range cause I could just say PPI and Focal and be done with it:P Heh, well ideally price range is a grand total of $0 plus cost of wires...however I was thinking about investing in an EQ as long as I can find a way to mount it below the 1 din stereo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted October 3, 2002 Report Share Posted October 3, 2002 You will get a better sound stage by powering the front speakers with the amp. Rear speakers are typically just considered "fill" speakers, I would power those by the deck. If you're not set on front speakers, point source speakers are supposed to image the best low in the doors where the Cutty's factory premium sound speakers would have gone (if you had them). All the audiophiles and competition winners I've talked to that run p/s speakers low in the front doors claim it images as well as components in the kick panels. After you get the speakers installed in the doors, I'd put some good tweeters in the dash to replace the 4" speakers, attenuated about -6dB. This will raise your sound stage a bit with minimal effect on imaging. I have heard Seas 27TFF are good tweets for that location (and not too expensive). Back when I was studying this, AVI had the best point source speakers around. For the money, the JBL P-632 was a good buy at 1/3 the price of AVI. I'm not sure what other brands/models of point source speakers are available, but I'm sure there's quite a few. I bought the JBL and have not installed them yet. Nice thing about them for a budget speaker, is the tweeter and woofer can be used with an external 2-way crossover, just like a component set. They also have plastic baskets, so they won't add significant weight to the doors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted October 3, 2002 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2002 I have Pioneer Premiere 6x9's in the rear, Stock 5 1/4's up front running from a Panisonic Headunit to a Alpine 50x4 amp. then i have 2 pioneer Premiere 12's being pushed by 2 Crunch 300x1 amps. it sounds good, really good. If anything i would recomend a new Deck with 3 RCA outputs (Front, Rear, Sub)and run a 4 channel amp for your mids. Adding the amp and deck alone will make any speaker sound 1000x better. Make sure the 4channel amp has a internal corssover (adjusable) and you can fine tune the fronts and rears sepratly. front speakers are genneraly smaller so you want to adj. the crossover to eliminate the lower freq. sound so they don't distort. and the fronts usually require less power, so you will also want to back off the power on the amp to the fronts so the sound stays ballanced in the front and rear. leave the Trebble and bass on the deck zerroed out and do all the adjustments on the amp itself. my deck supports Subwoofer preouts so i can increase/decrease the sound levels on the Subs through the deck. but again if your subwoofer amp has a crossover play with it first then worry about adjusting the deck. Hope this helps The Alpine 2 channel amp I have has a built in xover etc...so Im most likely going to use it to power the new pioneers I'll put in the doors...I eventually want to get another alpine deck with at least 2 sets of pre-outs (1 sub level) but for now I'll see if my bass tube accepts speaker level inputs...thanks for the advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted October 3, 2002 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2002 You will get a better sound stage by powering the front speakers with the amp.Rear speakers are typically just considered "fill" speakers, I would power those by the deck. If you're not set on front speakers, point source speakers are supposed to image the best low in the doors where the Cutty's factory premium sound speakers would have gone (if you had them). All the audiophiles and competition winners I've talked to that run p/s speakers low in the front doors claim it images as well as components in the kick panels. After you get the speakers installed in the doors, I'd put some good tweeters in the dash to replace the 4" speakers, attenuated about -6dB. This will raise your sound stage a bit with minimal effect on imaging. I have heard Seas 27TFF are good tweets for that location (and not too expensive). Back when I was studying this, AVI had the best point source speakers around. For the money, the JBL P-632 was a good buy at 1/3 the price of AVI. I'm not sure what other brands/models of point source speakers are available, but I'm sure there's quite a few. I bought the JBL and have not installed them yet. Nice thing about them for a budget speaker, is the tweeter and woofer can be used with an external 2-way crossover, just like a component set. They also have plastic baskets, so they won't add significant weight to the doors. Ive always been skeptical of JBL....these point source speakers, what is the difference that they have? They're pointed on an angle? The closest thing I saw was a Rockford 6.5" with a tweeter in the center that swiveled... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted October 3, 2002 Report Share Posted October 3, 2002 Point-source coax speakers place the tweeter inside the dustcap of the woofer, instead of suspended in front of it. They are supposed to image so well because they have perfect time alignment. Here's a link to AVI's lineup: http://www.avisound.com/point_source_coaxials.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92Cutlass4Dr Posted October 3, 2002 Report Share Posted October 3, 2002 Eclipse makes good point source speakers if you are looking to spend a bit more. As far as the preout thing, use them even if you have to split them. Speaker level inputs are problematic at best. They are much more susceptable to groud loop noise and other noise from electrical systems. I agree with RedZmonte, look into a new deck. Your sound can only be as good as it's source. If you get a good deck it makes a separate eq unnecessary unless you are really picky. As far as the jensen amp, i am not a fan of jensen in any way, but it will still be better sounding than most head units. It can also be very effective as a boat anchor, but if you're going through the trouble of wiring for an amp, run 4 AWG and use a distribution block to connect both of them. You can always upgrade the amp later, but at least this way you have the hard work done and you don't have to tear apart the car again. With the speakers (Pioneer vs Rockford in the front), go with what sounded good to you. Personal preference is important. it helps to be able to compare them side by side, or at least with music you are familiar with. Sorry for the long post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted October 4, 2002 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2002 Well, I just got back from some shopping. I bought a gold plated distributon block that is 4 ga in and four 8 ga out, which is perfect since now I can use some of the 8 ga wire currently in my car. I bought 8 feet of 4 ga wire from home depot, along with two of those O ring terminal things for the end, to go over the auxiliary post (thats the way I have it now, never had a problem) my phoenix gold inline fuse accepts 4 ga and it has a 60 amp fuse.... What I'm thinking is the best idea is to run the 4 ga wire from the aux post to under the bottom of the drivers seat, where I'll have the distribution block and the alpine amp. I'll run a short 8 ga piece of wire to power it, then ground it at one of the factory ground locations for the power seat (this might give me distortion if I use the seat or?) then I will keep the rest of the 8 ga wire already going to the trunk and just cut it near the drivers seat and stick it in the distribution block. Then install the speakers, run the speaker wire around the bottom of the dash by the firewall, where they will meet in the middle and travel below the center console, then go to the amp. Now since the drivers seat is power, I need to make sure I have enough clearance, which I should (the alpine amp is small). I would put this all on the pass side, however my CD changer is there, unless I MAYBE I'll have room in front of the CD changer (right in that sunken part of the floor under the seat where the air vent is) at least this way I shouldnt have distortion. I'll have the preamp RCA wires follow the speaker wires down under the console also...how does this sound? BTW how do I use the xovers with the coaxials? Do I just cut those 2 visible wires going to the tweeters? I'd think it would clear things up, big time. Thanks for the advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92Cutlass4Dr Posted October 4, 2002 Report Share Posted October 4, 2002 I'm a big believer in planning ahead, so i would put both amps in the trunk. That way in the future you can replace the amp easier, especially if the new amp is larger, and don't have to worry about the placement of the distribution block. I'd also use a double distribution block or buy a second distribution block for your ground wires. it's better to have one ground, or grounds that are very close together. In my cutlass, i found it was real easy to drill a hole in the metal that goes around the back seat pass-through, just underneath the back deck. that way it doesn't go through the bottom of the trunk and it's easier than trying to use a seatbelt bolt or something. Try to keep your rca wires isolated from any other wires as much as possible, especially the power wires. typically a good idea to run power wire and remote wire on one side, and the rca down the other side of the car. Sorry if i'm telling you stuff you already know, but i'm trying to avoid schoolwork by procrastinating :? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted October 4, 2002 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2002 I dont mind extra info!! The only issue I have with installing the amp in the trunk is all the extra wiring I'll need...speaker wires will be going from the trunk to the doors, oooh wait, at least this way my RCA wires I'll split AT my bass tube, so hell this might work after all! Only problem is my poor trunk is loaded with so much crap! lol thanks for the info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBuick Posted October 4, 2002 Report Share Posted October 4, 2002 Bass Tube = HIGH INPUTS!!!!!!! Dont use the RCAs, I know it sounds contrary to what is the accepted norm, but you've got to trust me (and bazooka inc.) on this one. - Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted October 4, 2002 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2002 just for arguments sake, these arent bazooka's, it's a bass tube with a kicker 8" sub in it, with a built in amp. So it's whatever the amp wants. I could just easily try both (if it even accepts speaker inputs) and see which sounds better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted October 8, 2002 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2002 Just updating. I spent the last 2 hours cutting holes in the door panel with a bent hacksaw blade (sharp tho!) and ran wire to the back, where I just hooked them up to the rear speaker outputs (driven by deck) they sound so sweet and clear! Kick the crap out of the rear sony 6x9's in the sound dept! Don't handle low bass very well, thats why I'll power them with the amp w/adjustable xover! I can't wait...I'll have it done tomorrow before class! I also need to run the 4 ga wire, which shouldnt take more than an hour. Also earlier today I rewired the foglights so they're taking current from where GM takes it, spliced the wire leaving the headlight breaker. Also rewired the alarm's trunk opener relay. Heh, maybe now the car wont burst into flames, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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