UA-65274002-1 Jump to content


  • Content Count

  • Donations

  • Joined

  • Last visited

About WrathOfSocrus

  • Rank


  • Location
    Jacksonville, FL
  1. Can you direct me to some place where I can look up TSBs for myself?
  2. 'TSB 634708 revised lower intake manifold installation' is what I came across when searching info about the metal gaskets. It's possible nothing significant changed, but I don't understand why this information isn't made easy to find without having to shell out for it. There must be something of value there, otherwise they wouldn't have bothered to make a TSB about it. Unless it is simply a warning not to use old stock plastic gaskets. I am just curious to find out what it says.
  3. I believe it. It is certainly a much better design. They have metal where it would take gorilla force to over torque it, and the gasket I saw wasn't completely trashed. But the Delco I saw was definitely showing signs that it was distorting around the ports. The Fel-Pro gasket is just engineered better. I am still curious about the changes to the LIM installation by GM. I guess I will dig around some more and hopefully find out what the TSB says.
  4. Well I checked out the Fel-Pro gaskets today and they don't have the plastic crap in the center like the Delco's do. This is a great relief that I don't have to replace the ones on the LeSabre. I had my friend get the Fel-Pros today and got it done. Back when I first replaced the engine in that car years ago I bought a torque wrench that has in/lbs and Nm graduations for about $130 at Summit. I used it today and printed out a page with the bolting sequence and torque specs. I just wish I knew what was on that TSB. GM is the one that failed and then they make changes to the repair procedure and keep it to themselves. I know the new gaskets aren't SUPPOSED to fail, but then again the originals weren't supposed to either. Every car that I have seen with the LIM gasket failure had the same situation - the very center of every port has a thin (~1/8") plastic ring around the port, followed by the gasket material (some synthetic seal). This inner plastic bends inwards when it swells after years of heat and pulls the gasket with it causing failure. The Delco metal gasket still has this feature! I would tell anyone debating which one to get that there is no debate - It's Fel-Pro or no go.
  5. I came across an issue recently which has left me with some questions. My friend has a 2001 Impala 3800. We replaced the motor when he got it and replaced many gaskets including from the LIM up. This was a handful of years ago and used plastic gaskets. I later did another LIM gasket job on a 97 LeSabre when my mother bought the car, knowing of the gasket issues and at that time used the Fel-Pro metal gasket and using Haynes manual torque specs. Fast forward to today when my friend tore apart the intakes on the Impala to find trouble with the LIM itself. After sitting for ~2 years, the car had even more problems than when it was parked. The LIM gaskets were plastic on the outside with whatever synthetic rubber gasket in the middle and more plastic in the middle. This plastic swells and bows inward, pulling the gasket material with it. I guess from the car sitting so long, the nasty old coolant eroded the LIM around one of the coolant ports and had to be replaced because it would never seal again. Today at the junkyard while grabbing an injector the car had aluminum LIM gaskets which turned out to be the Delco's. Now these Delco gaskets have the same fatal flaw as the other gaskets! They have plastic on the inside around the ports that showed swelling around the coolant ports. It has been so long since I did the Fel-Pro's on the LeSabre that I don't remember it having plastic inside, and I can't really tell by pics, it just looks all black. So here is the burning question - Is there a change in torque spec for the metal gaskets? I know on the 3500 LX9 it had little metal inserts around the bolt holes to avoid over torquing, but I really don't remember if they changed the torque spec there either. The car we unbolted at the junkyard had bolts on fairly tight (no thread locker), whereas all of the other LIM jobs I have done had many bolts roughly finger tight (if that). I wasn't sure if maybe there was a revision to the torque specs along with the new gasket design. I see there is a TSB 634708 revised lower intake manifold installation. However, I only see the heading description and everywhere I look I don't see the details. I have searched around a bit trying to find information, but everyone is using the same torque, many quoting the same Haynes manual as I used when fixing the LeSabre. Without knowing the details of the TSB, I can't be certain that this isn't going to be happening again. I would rather get both these cars squared away now with the right gaskets and torque specs and not have to deal with coolant getting into these engines. If anyone has access to the TSB and can tell me what it says, if anything, about the torque specs, then it would be greatly appreciated.
  6. The external crank trigger from TCE does provide the 7x signal. The 3500 damper/crank pulley is larger in diameter than the 3100/3400. I'm not sure if you can use the trigger with the 3500 pulley because of this. It is designed to use a 3100/3400 pulley. Those pulleys have the correct 24x trigger and the 3500 has the bolt holes for the 24x sensor (I'm pretty sure the timing cover is the same casting as the other 3x00's). Just reuse or replace a 3100/3400 pulley and use the original 24x sensor. If you want to get really creative, it does appear that the ridge the 24x ring mounts to the 3100/3400 pulley also exists on the 3500 pulley. You would probably have to heat up the 24x ring to get it off without damaging it. Then deal with the issue of properly positioning the 7x sensor to work with the larger diameter pulley. More hassle than it is worth since u can just use the smaller pulley and not be overdriving your belt drive accessories. On the other hand, the engine mounts are not all the same. The bolt bosses for 2 of the rear engine-to-trans mounts moved. The 4T65E uses the ones that didn't move, but the 4T60 mount needs modification. The passenger side dogbone mount will need some grinding as they lengthened 2 of the bolt bosses there. There is a casting seam on the mount which makes it easy to grind close to the line then fine tune it till it fits. Most of the other items such as the coolant line, coolant sensors, EGR and such would need to be dealt with in either a 3500 or 3400 swap. You can find some of the answers on the 60 degree forums, but you will probably have to ask questions as the 3500swap sticky left me with more questions than answers. That and several hours of my life missing.
  7. I have not seen any pics to confirm or deny whether they fit or not. I know from first hand experience that the steel subframes fit between gen 1 & 2, but I haven't looked at an aluminum subframe closely enough to see if they are the same. Anyone have good pics of the subframes side by side or measurements of any differences? If I get the chance this weekend I will take a look at my friend's '01 Impala and try to get measurements but my camera is downright terrible.
  8. It is a ratio of your old tire size to your new tire size. If you are going 25 MPH it isn't much. 1% of almost nothing is just a lot closer to nothing. When you get to highway speeds, depending on the ratio, it can throw off the speedo by several MPH. Might not be a ton but if your tire has a smaller circumference, and the speed sensor is reading X revolutions, then it 'thinks' X multiplied by the stock circumference is the speed you are going. Even with differences from tire to tire of the same size from different manufacturers, compounded by the fact many of us have ~20 year old cars, there are a number of variables that can add up. Here is a tire calc Going by the ratio of the small tire my car came with compared to what is on it now, the calc says when my speedo would have read 60 I am really doing 65.5, had I kept the stock computer and wiring. Not an insane difference but probably enough to get me a ticket in the right situation if i wasn't cognizant of the discrepancy. Going to a smaller tire would do the opposite. For example, you see a cop on the freeway and drop your speed to what you think is the speed limit, and start seeing cars getting backed up behind you because you are really going 5MPH under the speed limit. My main point is that many people only think about tires for how much grip they have for launching and braking, or what they look like. However, tire diameter does effect the final ratio between combustion and the road. In my case I had a weak 2.8 on a base CS with little tires on 14" rims. Since I have a 3500 now, I will have a ton more torque to get me moving. With 16" aluminum wheels and smaller rubber between the rim and the ground, my overall wheel weight probably didn't change much. Since I took the entire transmission, computer, and wiring harness from a vehicle with a tire much closer to my current size, my speedo and shift points should end up close enough for my needs.
  9. The last critical number to figure out your true overall ratio between the engine and the ground, besides gear and differential, is the tire diameter. I did a quick search for Static Loaded Radius and found this link that explains some of the dynamics of the relationship between the tire and the road. Think of how a breaker bar works, but in reverse. If you put a socket on a breaker bar, bend it to 90* and hold it by the socket, the bar has a good amount of leverage. Add a short section of pipe hanging off the handle and it will be increasingly more difficult to hold on. The same physics work on a car. The more feet between your hub and the ground, the more ft/lbs of torque needed to get the same mass moving. Changing the tire diameter will throw off the speedometer and can move shift points to different speeds which can alter fuel economy or just be plain annoying. I had a beat to hell old Ford Fairmont that would constantly shift when holding a steady 40 MPH which was a nightmare living in a hilly area that had a lot of back roads with a 40 MPH speed limit. Since it had a straight six, I knew it had enough torque to move around pretty well, so I went from 205/65 to 215/75. That allowed me to keep it in 2nd and not have to downshift to 2nd on every small uphill section. The silly 1 barrel carb never seemed to use much more fuel no matter how much you pushed on the pedal. The extra width plus the limited slip was sweet for the snow!
  10. The early 3100's had ball pivot rockers and some early heads were not notched for roller fulcrum rockers. I can't see a gasket being used to control the pushrod so I was guessing they also used guides under the rocker studs. Anyone have pics of a 3100 with ball pivots?
  11. Are the fans still powered normally through the stock wiring, or did you run new power and ground wires? If it is through the stock wiring i believe it switches ground on/off and would allow the relay to stay energized. If you want to use the stock wiring you would need a double pole relay to make/break contact with positive and negative. You can use one wire and connect 2 relays in parallel. There are a number of wiring options if you are looking for thermostatic control with a switched override.
  12. Correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure the ball pivot rockers have steel guides bolted under the rocker studs like the Gen2 60* motors. If you have the roller fulcrum then you don't have the handy pushrod 'holder' there to hold the pushrods in place during assembly, which is why they have the gasket sets with 'guides'. They don't perform any mechanical function during operation like the older style, they just make it a minute amount easier to install the pushrods. I personally like to install the intake pushrods first, and while getting the rocker snugged down I put my finger down the intake port to make sure it is pointing towards the same valve I am tightening. If it doesnt point to the same valve then it is in the wrong spot. This makes it easier to avoid mixing up pushrods since you only have exhaust pushrods to install once the intake pushrods are done.
  13. They were pulled off the store because they are backed up on headers. The shop moved to Florida this spring right around the same time they got a load of orders. It will probably be a while before they get caught up and have them available again.
  • Create New...