dohc v6 Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Well I am getting ready to build some suspension parts for my lumina and was wondering if there was any interest in a REAL coil over solution for the w-bodys. These will be fully threaded tubes with a fully threaded shock. Any interest? They will have 32 way adjustable shocks with a pillowball top mount. These are not sleeve overs, these are the real deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 price? That's going to be the deciding factor for everyone... the DIY method is just so much more affordable. Hard to beat a method that works and you can do yourself for $500 or less. Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohc v6 Posted March 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 I figured that price was gonna be a big thing. I am thiking around $800-1000 if I can get 5 people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 If you could keep it down around the $800 mark I would be in, pending your time frame and what-not. And of course pending pictures so I can get a better idea of what it involves. Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 I just want the damn mounts Dont take this the wrong way, but give us a 32 way adjustable strut with those mounts and they wont perform any different that a threaded body strut Sooo, $800-$1000 for all 4 corners or just 2?? Because if its just 2 you know your smoking crack into thinking you may have more than 1 buyer if that here... $800-$1000 for all 4, seems like a good deal, $1600-$2000 for all 4, no so much for a W-body Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 I just want the damn mounts Dont take this the wrong way, but give us a 32 way adjustable strut with those mounts and they wont perform any different that a threaded body strut Sooo, $800-$1000 for all 4 corners or just 2?? Because if its just 2 you know your smoking crack into thinking you may have more than 1 buyer if that here... $800-$1000 for all 4, seems like a good deal, $1600-$2000 for all 4, no so much for a W-body this is true! Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 you can make your own coilovers in the rear for 200 and Held sells the front for 300. So if you can come close to that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 you can make your own coilovers in the rear for 200 and Held sells the front for 300. So if you can come close to that... But he says what he will be doing are REAL coilovers.. I guess the ones I did and others are FAKE We dont need better coilover solutions, we need mounts and mayb better strut options... Mark, i would go with the mounts first, ive seen the ones you do for other cars and they look fuckin awsome, thats what I know I am interested in as of now.. Those would be money very well spent on our cars!! Now eleventybillion way adjustable struts, not so much to be realistic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphagtp Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 funny how he always has problems here selling his stuff, yet he keeps coming with his 1,000 dollars items and dont take me wrong! I appreciate the input and stuff you do, I wish I could get everything you have for my car but $ is a little problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 I think the big problem with this particular one is that, everyone that wants coil overs already has them and doesn't want to spend MORE money swapping new ones on... IMHO the held rears are the best you can do, their upper mount is superior to anything else I have seen and all the other parts can be replaced off a1racing... The fronts I am waiting on a new design because while the held ones work, they are less than ideal with a plastic upper spring mount. On top of that I want adjustable camber/caster plates for the front. The sleeve over strut mod is fine, works the way it is supposed to work, the only way I would improve on the rears I have is adjustable struts. But adjustable struts are not made for our cars, yeah you can modify some to work but by modifying them you nullify their warranty. I personally will be staying with KYBs until someone convinces Koni to do another run of their struts. Mark, Like Alpha mentioned, we do appreciate the work and effort your putting into parts development for our cars, its just that not all of us have the cash flow to do things like this... Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jman093 Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 What is wrong with the upper mounts on our cars? I already have rear coil-overs but they utilize the stock mount. What is there to gain by the Held mount or this mount? I don't like how bone-jarring the ride on my car is, but don't want to lose much in handling. I might be interested if I know I can get a good compromise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Putting the spring directly on the stock upper strut mount IMO is a bad choice, some have done it with no problems but if that spring comes unloaded around a corner it will not seat right back where it belongs on the mount. With the held mounts its not going to seat anywhere but where it is supposed to. On top of that the Held mount has a poly bushing between the spring and the rest of the car, and the strut attaches to the mount via 2 poly bushings, so there is no sold "bone-jarring" effect. Here is a pic of the held mount When you mount the strut to it you put a poly bushing on the strut and then the mount then another poly bushing, the mount is clamped between 2 poly bushing so there is no solid connection. And the poly also allows the strut a few degrees of lateral movement with the suspension. My suspension fully unloaded does not allow the spring to come far away from that mount far enough to catch the lip when it comes back down. Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jman093 Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Thanks, I see now. So adding a mount does sound like it'd help with what I want. I'm not sure if held will sell just a mount. I might have to call them. But Mark, if you're going to be selling just the mount for those of us already have helds I might be interested as well in that. Would this mount be better than the held? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 A pillow ball top mount is going to be mounted more rigid than the poly top mount. The only way I would go away from the mounts I have is if they were adjustable camber mounts, but even then I already run maximum negative caster on the stock rear struts with no issues because of the poly in the top mount. Mind you I'm starting to feel like these adjustable camber and caster plates everyone keeps talking about for the front are just a pipe dream... everyone talks about it, makes a proto type, then it gets shoved to a back burner. I'll probably get around to making my own in shop class before anyone makes them available. (mine will be one off) Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 those held rear mounts are really not very good. As far as i can tell the strut is more or less not allowed to move side to side, as needed with suspension articulation. If I really needed camber adjustment to the extent where i needed camber plates, you'd see me going the cheap route and cutting and welding my strut towers and be done with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 The poly allows it to move just fine, its more than adequate... Do you ever have anything positive to say about any after market parts made for our cars? I don't see you coming up with anything... Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOT2B GM Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 The slots in the bottom of the rear KYB struts allow for tons of camber adjustment already..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 The poly allows it to move just fine, its more than adequate... Do you ever have anything positive to say about any after market parts made for our cars? I don't see you coming up with anything... Jamie Theres poly on the back for the strut? Like i said as far as i could see. I cant see the back of the mount in that picture And typically, I dont like any aftermarket parts since they seem like they dont consider the original design intent of the oem part. And I'm a cheap bastard, so i'll end up doing everything on my own. But i believe in lineage of design...this is why i'm not putting much of anything into my W-body to make it go fast. W-bodies arent racecars, i'm not going to waste my time making mine one. As far as creating something, refer to this thread: http://www.w-body.com/forum/index.php?topic=56830.0 I put my time in where its gonna count. When I get the most track time in a purpose built racecar. I guess i'm putting this on a much higher pedestal than W-Bodies. Does it offend you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohc v6 Posted March 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 First, I never said anything about $1600 shocks. I understand that alot of people on here dont have much money but there are people that do have money. I was simply offering a solution to a problem. There are no parts for these car and I was gonna fix that by making parts. The B&G coilover for my sunfire are $1700. People that want quality products are willing to pay. I am not bashing anyone here. BOB- stop thinking that I am trying to bash the w-body community. Its obvious that you have beef with me or something. Rear mounts without a spherical bearing is pointless and is going to cause premature failure. Having a spherical bearing in the mount on an independent rear suspension is the only way to go. Fake and Real coilover- yes there is a difference. Coilovers that have a sleeve that goes over the shock is the not the best idea, a coilover that is one unit is the best. If you guys just need a top mount made, let me know. I charge this crowed the least cause I know the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 I never said you were bashing the W-body community?? I dunno what I said that made you infer that??? No problems.. I do want mounts!! I kinda need them.. So, if you are going to make and do mounts for up for appx $200 a pair, im game, depending on how long it takes you. I can wait 6 damn months for them.. And I also want my other control arm back since you are done with it. Twas part of the deal, remember?? USPS loosing the package for 3 weeks wasnt my problem.. Soooo, any time frame on the mounts?? I imagine you prolly already a design drafted up.. I just need to know so I know whether to wait and get them for you, or continue and have my design made.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohc v6 Posted March 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 I am going to be building the control arms this week and next. The mount I will be working on soon as I am putting coilover or Konis on my car. It should not be long though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Ok, so can I expect you to have a completed ready for me to purchase mount in 4 weeks time??? If not, then I have to pursue doing them myself.. Im just getting soo damn ancy about getting my suspension done... And any idea on price?? I need camber and caster adjustment.. Only camber adjustment mounts are not sufficient for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 I don't see why the sleeve design is no good... its what people have been putting on these cars for years without issue Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jman093 Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Hey now, all. I haven't read where anybody is bashing anybody else. We all really appreciate any work that gets aftermarket parts made for our cars. Lord knows nobody else is making them, and I'm anxious to see what comes of all this. I'm not going to be interested in the entire coilover, especially for the rears, but rear mounts I would likely buy if I can't get helds. Definitely interested in tubular control arms too. I figured that project died. My one question about the front suspension, is why can't we swap the second gen design? Obviously we can't swap single parts, like the strut and knuckle, or control arms or even axles, but it would seem to me that the whole front end would bolt right in. I rough measured the 4 bolts that attach the subframe/engine cradle on a second gen car (I think a GP) I had in my bay at work a couple months ago and the 4 bolts the measured the exact same dimensions on all axis as my car. Could we swap in an engine cradle from a 60V6 second gen and use the second gen control arm, strut, knucke, and axles? If so we'd get the lighter aluminum cradle and access to all we'd ever need in suspension parts. I can see the steering rack being a hang-up if that's different from ours, but I'm sure that can be worked around (drilling holes to make a first gen fit or adapting the second gen design). Am I dreaming or could this be done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohc v6 Posted March 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Camber and caster will be around $275. Just regular moutns with a spherical bearing in them will run $195. The back will be a little cheaper. I will have them done in 2-3 weeks. Although I am going to a sr20 convention I might not be able to post much but I will get these done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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