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3800 Series I (L27) RPM limit


xtremerevolution
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Does anyone know what the RPM redline is for a 3800 Series I L27 engine? I'm not asking for the shift points, but rather for the actual rev limit.

 

Thanks.

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Is it safe to go any higher on the stock engine and stock internals? If so, how much higher? Would 6000 be simply extending the power curve or would it actually put a much higher strain on the engine?

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going to 6000 rpm would not help you at all with a stock engine. I remember my old 93 Regal with the 3800 would start to lose power drastically after 5000rpm. Your car would actually be slower if it shifted at 6000rpm.

 

Now.... If you put a cam in it which extended the power band higher then stock, I'm sure 6000rpm would be fine.

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going to 6000 rpm would not help you at all with a stock engine. I remember my old 93 Regal with the 3800 would start to lose power drastically after 5000rpm. Your car would actually be slower if it shifted at 6000rpm.

 

Now.... If you put a cam in it which extended the power band higher then stock, I'm sure 6000rpm would be fine.

Exactly!!! That sounds about right. It actually loses power from 4800RPM on, so it'd be pointless revving until 6000RPM. More strain on the internals than power. A turbo would do nicely here, where it loses power; The turbo would be more than happy to give. But the 4T60 wouldn't like it as much as the engine would, if you know what i mean ... It just might develop a sudden case of Parkinson's Disease and Alzheimer's Dementia (shifting erratically and/or "forgetting" to shift at all) and quit on you.

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going to 6000 rpm would not help you at all with a stock engine. I remember my old 93 Regal with the 3800 would start to lose power drastically after 5000rpm. Your car would actually be slower if it shifted at 6000rpm.

 

Now.... If you put a cam in it which extended the power band higher then stock, I'm sure 6000rpm would be fine.

Exactly!!! That sounds about right. It actually loses power from 4800RPM on, so it'd be pointless revving until 6000RPM. More strain on the internals than power. A turbo would do nicely here, where it loses power; The turbo would be more than happy to give. But the 4T60 wouldn't like it as much as the engine would, if you know what i mean ... It just might develop a sudden case of Parkinson's Disease and Alzheimer's Dementia (shifting erratically and/or "forgetting" to shift at all) and quit on you.

 

LOL yeah no kidding. Still though, I had a great experience with my 4T60E. I ran it up to 148,600 miles before I had it rebuilt (I'm now at 150,500 miles), and it still shifted just fine in all gears except out of first. Going from 1st into 2nd gear took too long. If I manually downshifted into 1st and left it there at a steady 25 mph, it would take 2 seconds to shift into 2nd gear. At full throttle near redline, it would shift a second too late and you'd feel the transmission hit a hard shift. The rest of the shifting was fine from 2nd to 3rd even at 5500 rpm, but considering how hard I've driven the transmission since I got the car with 67,000 miles (I'm now 21 mind you, and I got this as my first car when I was 16), i think 148,600 miles is a damn good transmission.

 

Thanks for the replies though. I've decided to keep my engine virtually stock aside from the CAI I'll be making for it and a 180 degree thermostat. Anything else won't be worth doing to my engine since I've got 150,000 miles on it.

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If you're looking to add a little more fun to your engine, you always can swap the intake and s/c from a series 1 3800 Bonneville SSEi or Park Ave...

 

I always wanted to do this to my old Regal but never did..

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If you're looking to add a little more fun to your engine, you always can swap the intake and s/c from a series 1 3800 Bonneville SSEi or Park Ave...

 

I always wanted to do this to my old Regal but never did..

 

I heard that's possible and pretty easy to do, though I might need a PCM from one of those. The only problem with it though is that my internals aren't the same. I hear the Series 1 L67 has much stronger internals and different headers, so I might reduce the life of my engine by a bit if I tried this. I have 150,500 miles as it is. Then again, I probably won't keep it past 200,000 miles anyway so it just might be worth it.

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IIRC, Series 1's L67's are identical to the L27 aside from the heads.

 

You'll need a higher-flow fuel pump and the PCM.

 

Are you serious?

 

If I had known this I would have bolted on that supercharger a long long time ago. Isn't the alternator and water pump in a different place?

 

Can I get a confirmation that I can upgrade my L27 to a Series 1 L67 with a few bolt-ons? I always had the impression that the internals were different.

 

Is there a thread anywhere that shows how to supercharge the Series I 3800 L27?

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Bonnevilleclub.com has a few threads on the matter if you care to search over there.

 

I don't think the alternator moved. I know for a fact the water pump didn't. The PS pump did, and it added a remote reservoir. Like I said before, unlike the Series II, I'm almost certain that the Series I L67 didn't get any different internals. Even if it did, people bolt L67 heads to L36's and run superchargers without any big problems, so I wouldn't worry about it. It's not like the M62 is really that big of a power adder anyway.

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Bonnevilleclub.com has a few threads on the matter if you care to search over there.

 

I don't think the alternator moved. I know for a fact the water pump didn't. The PS pump did, and it added a remote reservoir. Like I said before, unlike the Series II, I'm almost certain that the Series I L67 didn't get any different internals. Even if it did, people bolt L67 heads to L36's and run superchargers without any big problems, so I wouldn't worry about it. It's not like the M62 is really that big of a power adder anyway.

 

Yeah that's true, but its a nice bit of fun to add one, considering the engine comes stock at 170 HP/225 lb-ft. That way i can finally break below the 7 second 0-60. I get 6.9 on a good day and about 7.1 on a normal day. I'll check that out. Does anyone else around here know anything about this?

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Alright...

 

From what I remember from what I researched on swapping a s/c onto a L27... ( could search because I've posted all this stuff before, but I'm too lazy right now. lol)

 

-The alternator IS in a different location, along with the PS Pump. Those are the only 2 accessories that were moved. You'll need the Series 1 L67 accessory brackets and pullies including the harmonic balancer. Some pullies may be the same, but I would grab all of them just in case.

 

-The connecting rods are different but the rest of the engine's components are shared (minus the intake system)

 

-The 94/95 Eaton M62 is a better choice for the swap. Gen 2 vs Gen 1 Eaton. The 94/95 engines had 20 more hp and 15 more torque even though they actually had a larger pulley then the 92/93 l67's.

 

-As for the ECM, There are after market solutions to reprogram your factory memcal.

 

-Upgrading the fuel pump would be a good idea, considering the age of the car..

 

Ummm, I give up. I'll try searching for some of my old posts on this and edit this post.

 

EDIT:

You have a 95' right? if so from what I read in one of the older thread you'll be able to use a 95 Riveria Memcal. The PCM's internals are identical!

 

Also, forgot the mention that you'll need the l67 fuel injectors, fuel rail, etc...

 

But yeah, I think this covers most of it.

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Your car is not running low 7 second 0-60 times. Whatever you're using to measure it is inaccurate. Typical 0-60 times for a L27 are low-mid 8's. 8.2 being the fastest I've seen from a *correct* time(measured by Motor Trend magazine, it was a 2dr GS btw). At absolute best on street tires, I could see a Regal cutting a 8.0 0-60mph time(I've seen a video of a 2dr/L27 car running a 15.8 1/4 mile time, but the weather conditions were perfect and the car launched nicely...15.8 would probably be about 8.0 seconds to 60. Low-mid 16's 1/4 mile ET's are about the average in good conditions)

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Your car is not running low 7 second 0-60 times. Whatever you're using to measure it is inaccurate. Typical 0-60 times for a L27 are low-mid 8's. 8.2 being the fastest I've seen from a *correct* time(measured by Motor Trend magazine, it was a 2dr GS btw). At absolute best on street tires, I could see a Regal cutting a 8.0 0-60mph time(I've seen a video of a 2dr/L27 car running a 15.8 1/4 mile time, but the weather conditions were perfect and the car launched nicely...15.8 would probably be about 8.0 seconds to 60. Low-mid 16's 1/4 mile ET's are about the average in good conditions)

 

I can get a photo if you want me to. The Passport G-Timer measured me at 7.1 seconds on the 0-60 without the subs in the car, and it supposed to be reasonably accurate. The car doesn't weigh all that much compared to the sedan. I also stiffened up the suspension and upgraded the intake/exhaust.

 

Like I said, I can get a photo of what my g-timer is reading, and those are accurate to a standard deviation of .2 seconds.

 

I badly owned countless V6 mustangs, a couple Celica GTS's, a 2002 BMW 325i, and managed to keep up with a 2006 Civic Si up to 85 mph till I shifted out of 2nd. A week ago I even kept up with a 1st gen GTP from 0-50 mph before the light turned red again. I also beat my friend's 2000 Acura TL.

 

I'll run a G-timer quarter mile recording some time this week and let you know what I'm getting for that.

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While it's possible that you have a massive freak.. I've owned the L27. I couldn't keep up with a 3400 Montana let alone an LQ1 of any flavor, and definitely not an Si. I'm not calling bullshit, I just find it very surprising for an L27 to be that fast.

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While it's possible that you have a massive freak.. I've owned the L27. I couldn't keep up with a 3400 Montana let alone an LQ1 of any flavor, and definitely not an Si. I'm not calling bullshit, I just find it very surprising for an L27 to be that fast.

 

On a bad day with the subs in the trunk I pulled a 7.4 0-60 with my old tranny. I've also removed roughly 60-80 pounds worth of junk from my car, anywhere from heavy insulation between the back seats and the trunk, to the side molding, to random stuff like the rear floor mats, and even the sound padding under the hood. I remove virtually every small bit of weight I can, cause altogether it makes a slight bit of a difference. The racing seats are also about 10lb lighter each than the stock seats I used. The new rims are also lighter than the older ones. The 2006 Si does 0-60 in 7.1 stock under ideal conditions brand new.

 

The 1995 Regal Sedan weighs 3335 pounds. Due to the absence of two doors altogether and a shorter body, my car's weight specification is 3232. Considering that and the fact that I've removed 60-80 pounds, is it really that hard to believe that without the sub box in the back, adding a magnaflow muffler and res delete, and a conical air filter, and NGK Iridium IX spark plugs, I can run a 7.1 0-60 on a good day? My suspension is also very stiff, so I manage to get a bit more of the power to the wheels. My best time with my old transmission was 7.42 with the sub box in it, but that tranny had a big delay and a huge shift out of first since the clutch places were completely shot. I haven't yet run a 0-60 with the rebuilt tranny and without the sub box, but I can do so if you guys really want me to.

 

Your Regal GS weighs what, 3550 lbs? If I weighed 400lb less than you do, would it still be that hard to believe?

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Run it at a real track with accurate timers and you'll have a better idea(from your 1/8th mile times and trap speeds). Like I said before, 8.0-8.2 0-60's are the norm for your car w/ 170hp/225 ft-lbs of torque.

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Run it at a real track with accurate timers and you'll have a better idea(from your 1/8th mile times and trap speeds). Like I said before, 8.0-8.2 0-60's are the norm for your car w/ 170hp/225 ft-lbs of torque.

 

I've read many reviews on the accuracy of my G-Timer GT2, which I paid $200 for, all of which tell me its extremely accurate. The g-timer scans g-forces at a couple hundred times a second, and based on those g-forces and a certain length of time, it calculates how long it takes to get to a certain speed. It will tell you your max HP based on the curb weight you give it and a few other adjusted variables, and mine usually comes out between 190 and 200.

 

The FAQ states that "For most vehicles, the readings will be within 100 milliseconds "out of the box," and within 50 milliseconds after fine-tuning setup items for the specific car."

 

Like I said before, my car weighs less than the typical L27-powered car, and has several aftermarket mods installed that have to do with performance and suspension. I'll get it to a track when I get a chance and scan the time slip.

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Like I said before, my car weighs less than the typical L27-powered car, and has several aftermarket mods installed that have to do with performance and suspension. I'll get it to a track when I get a chance and scan the time slip.

 

The 8.2 I quoted was from a coupe JUST like yours(that car ran a 16.0@81mph by the way). 60-80lbs weight reduction is not even worth mentioning here for this particular discussion, it doesn't make as big of a difference as you're thinking. Run a low-mid 15 second pass at the track and then I'll believe a low 7 second 0-60mph time from your car, otherwise, nope.

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While it's possible that you have a massive freak.. I've owned the L27. I couldn't keep up with a 3400 Montana let alone an LQ1 of any flavor, and definitely not an Si.

I've had 2 L27's (92 LeSabre, 95 Regal,) and my LeSabre was definitely slower than my Regal. I jumped half a car length on my 04 Impy (3400) in the Regal, so an L27 can definitely hang with an LA1 if it's in a W.

 

Funny you mention the M62 swap, xtremerevolution, I actually bought an M62 from a 95 SSEi a few years back (complete with the lower intake and injectors) and just sold it a couple of months ago. There was some discussion about it over here:

http://www.w-body.com/forum/index.php/topic,15681.0.html

 

Here's some good info on the W-Body L27 PCM, courtesy of GMTuners:

http://dtcc.cz28.com/eprom/3800PCM.htm

 

In fact, just visit their main site: http://dtcc.cz28.com

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I think I might just go ahead and bolt on that supercharger.

 

From what I'm reading, I need the following parts at minimum:

 

"L67 lower intake, S/C, Harmonic balancer, alternator and p/s pump mounts, additional idler pulleys for the s/c belt, maybe the fuel rail."

 

Do I actually need the fuel rail?

 

Does anyone know where I can get some of these parts? I would be quite grateful to anyone who could show me exactly where to get some of these so I can just order them and start installing.

 

What exactly is meant by "L67 lower intake."

 

I can get a harmonic balancer for $85+ shipping brand new on rockauto.com, but I'm wondering if I can find it for less. The rebuilt supercharger runs for $200 on ebay from what I saw, and I'm not sure about the mounts and idler pulleys.

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Try and get the supercharger already attached to the lower manifold (with the injectors and fuel rails already installed) :

 

supercharger01.jpg

 

Damn, where the hell were you when I was trying to unload my supercharger?!? :lol: Anyway, search eBay. That's where I found (and ultimately sold) mine...

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