This is what happens when you get bored......

[jman093]

Sweet project. FWIW, has anyone ever measured exactly how much heaviler a first gen front suspension minus brakes is compared to a second gen?

[BXX]

Once im done, the balljoint will be in the proper location. It appears i wont even have to do anything with the rear mount either, but if i have to cut that one off and move it 1/4 inch, no biggy. Of course where i locare the front mount in the end dictates where the balljoint will be. Im well versed on suspension angles, so i have zero doubts that i will screw this up. Its actually pretty straightforward.

Today i picked up tons of 1/8 inch steel plate that i will be boxing the cradle and making the mount with. Although i think im gonna wait to complete it until i pick up a plate shearer instead of spending so much time using a air cutoff tool. Plus the end results will be nicer.

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[BXX]

I think its largely the balljoint placement that allows for running gen2 knuckles/struts

Bingo!!!! And mainly better brakes.

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[White93z34]

also helps that the 2g front suspension makes 10000x more sense then the loony unistrut-knuckle-mess

[BXX]

Exactly! A set of AGXs, gring off the spring perch, assemble my coilovers and voila.

And yes, i also want a set of tubular control arms, and a nice fat gen 2 sway bar.

Like i said, its also a control arm that doesnt look like a mangled piece of sheet steel. Plus, i can buy gen 2 control arms new cheaper than gen 1.

Also Shurkey, the bushing is designed to allow the proper movement. Look at all manufactures now, they are all using verticle bushings on one point. Aside from a few that are known the slip, replacing them with heavy duty aftermarket parts bushings solve that.

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[gpchris]

Its not a serious amount of weight. I think the idea is to allow for better shocks options (KYB AGX) and better brakes. I'm curious as to how this will affect wheel offset.

w-body brakes, when working well, can still brake perfectly well for just about anyone. The factory dual piston brakes can lock up the wheels all too easily unless you start track racing.

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Having done this upgrade myself over a year ago I can tell you first hand theres quite a bit of weight loss. I forget the number but with tubular control arms, aftermarket coilovers, aluminum knuckles and aluminum f-body calipers its about 30lbs per side. Combine that with a manual trans and you've almost made up for the weight of a 3.4 haha.

[xtremerevolution]

Having done this upgrade myself over a year ago I can tell you first hand theres quite a bit of weight loss. I forget the number but with tubular control arms, aftermarket coilovers, aluminum knuckles and aluminum f-body calipers its about 30lbs per side. Combine that with a manual trans and you've almost made up for the weight of a 3.4 haha.

You neglected to mention tubular control arms.

30 pounds though? I find that very hard to believe. I'm not even 100% sure if the control arms, knuckles, and dry calipers together weigh a whole lot more than 30 pounds, and I've replaced the control arms on the GSE.

I have the F-body brakes ready to be installed on the GSE, but don't forget that the rotors are bigger, the pads are bigger, and they're dual piston and significantly bigger. The weight difference there is quite minor once you consider the differences for the entire swap. 15 pounds is more believable and the only real benefit will be in reducing unsprung weight.

How much of a weight difference is really there between stamped steel and tubular control arms? 5 pounds?

[BXX]

I could care less aboot the weight savings, it's all going on my Euro/Z which is my DD. I just want brakes that I have to put way less effort into stopping.

I figure it'll be aboot 20lbs total using stock control arms including brakes. Imma sure there are nice aluminum calipers out there that will work on Gen 2 knuckles.

I would be outside today working on the car, but I need a day off doing nothing to recouperate. I've been deathly exhausted the past week, not sure why.

Sat night, I went from being ok and awake at 10pm, to holy shit I need to get to bed before I fall asleep walking at 10:30pm. I hit the bed and passed out cold. I've never done that or been that tired before. So the next couple days off I have (today and Sunday) I gotta relax. Work has been busy and tiring.

And Chris, got some pics of your work? Not trying to be a dick dude, but you've said time and time again how you did something before to your car, yet i've never seen pics of anything except an asploded "quality" coilover mount from fricken DOHCV6

I wanna see how your cradle was modded if it's pretty much the same idea I haz stuck inside the clusterfuck I call my mind.

[xtremerevolution]

I could care less aboot the weight savings, it's all going on my Euro/Z which is my DD. I just want brakes that I have to put way less effort into stopping.

I figure it'll be aboot 20lbs total using stock control arms including brakes. Imma sure there are nice aluminum calipers out there that will work on Gen 2 knuckles.

I would be outside today working on the car, but I need a day off doing nothing to recouperate. I've been deathly exhausted the past week, not sure why.

Sat night, I went from being ok and awake at 10pm, to holy shit I need to get to bed before I fall asleep walking at 10:30pm. I hit the bed and passed out cold. I've never done that or been that tired before. So the next couple days off I have (today and Sunday) I gotta relax. Work has been busy and tiring.

And Chris, got some pics of your work? Not trying to be a dick dude, but you've said time and time again how you did something before to your car, yet i've never seen pics of anything except an asploded "quality" coilover mount from fricken DOHCV6

I wanna see how your cradle was modded if it's pretty much the same idea I haz stuck inside the clusterfuck I call my mind.

The F-body brake upgrade is an aluminum caliper and a dual piston one at that. The pads are more than 2x bigger than they are on the 2nd gen w-body.



I have a set in my garage and I just need to drill and tap the caliper brackets to work with the w-body bolts, clean them up a bit, and paint them.

[BXX]

Also, any reviews on ZZP's tubular control arms?

I dont wanna spend $500 on a set and have them end up the way of the RK Sport tubular LCAs on Jbodies where they break.

I see where they say they are made from 4130, but I don't know the quality of their welder or what size the tubing is.

I could make a set myself once I get my tubing bender, or just have my welder make me a set for aboot the same cost. I know there are zero quality issues with his welds, especially on Chromoly. He's a tube frame drag car fabricator who specializes in Chromoly.

Of course, modding a set of stock arms with a poly busing on the horizontal mount and a spherical bearing on the vertical wouldn't be a bad idea at all.

[BXX]

Ok thanks Andrei!

So if F-body brakes will work, then aftermarket F-body setups will work as well, correct?

What size is the F-body rotor? 12.7"?

I have 19" wheels I need to try to fill without breaking the bank.

[pwmin]

They're right around 12". I'm getting a setup really soon, so I'll be able to measure. The GXP brakes are 12.7, so that would actually be the best option to me, but they're more expensive, obviously, and require 18" wheels, which you might have on that car...can't remember. The rears are 12". Also, ZZP makes a 13" kit for the fronts, but they're not aluminum calipers, which is another reason the GXP setup is probably better. I'm not saying you have to buy ZZP, just showing some examples of what you can do.

GXP: http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/...Brake-Kit.aspx
13": http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/...Brake-Kit.aspx

(the first five listed are brake kits) http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/...-Handling.aspx

[rich17]

So i havent been on in a while and seen thise title and started to read before the pics popped up. I totally thought you were making 1st gen tubular arms. Get on that will ya

[timg]

Very cool. I missed that you were swapping to a gen 2 front suspension the first few times I saw this post. I've always wondered about that and the new HiPerStrut on the Buicks and Saabs.

Tim