W-body engine pull

[PCGUY112887]

I will be pulling my 3100 from my 96 GP soon to put in a 3500, and I was wondering where the lower engine mount is? I know the engine has to come unbolted from the tranny, and then the 2 dogbone mounts on top come off, then all lines get disconnected.... but where is that lower mount and is there anything else that has to come apart for the engine to come out? Tranny is staying in the car.

Thanks.

[Brian P]

I'll make you a list tonight (if noone else does it right) I've done this way too many times

[PCGUY112887]

Please do, thanks

[Brian P]

I have a few minutes at this moment.

That lower mount, all you need to do is crawl under the car, and remove the 2 retaining nuts keeping the mount onto its "cup" on the frame. Other things to do....

Bottom:
- unbolt AC compressor from bracket and set aside
- Remove starter
- Remove flexplate-to-torque converter bolts (accessible once starter is removed. You will have to turn the engine manually at the crank pulley to get at all 3)
- Disconnect exhaust downpipe (preferred), or unbolt crossover and remove rear exhaust manifold.
- Remove right side transmission-to-engine block retaining bolts (I usually just remove the 2 bolts going into the trans diff cone area, and leave the bracket bolted to the engine block)

Over:
- All hoses including upper, lower, and 2 heater hoses (nearest the throttle body
- Remove cables from TB or just unbolt the TB and set it aside
- Undo two fuel lines with special quick disconnect tool
- Get all accessories out of the way
- Unbolt P/S pump and set aside
- Remove alternator (preference of mine for added space) keep the bracket bolted to the engine
- Disconnect engine wiring harness that goes to the EGR, Throttle body, igniton module, MAP sensor, Oxygen sensor, injector harness, etc and set aside
- *** Disconnect knock sensor and oil pressure sensor wiring (You don't want to pull these apart accidentally)
- remove crossover heat shield and crossover (optional for added space to get to the bellhousing bolts)
- undo bellhousing bolts, disconnect 2 ground wires attached to 2 of these bolts *** ONE Bellhousing bolt in the BACK of the motor is facing the OTHER direction. You can only access this from the passenger side of the car. I usually use a long 1/2" extension and get at it by feel from the passenger side fenderwell.
- Support transmission from the bottom with a jack, or jackstand (use a big piece of wood to prevent gouging the pan)
- lift up evenly, be sure motor mount lifts out of its cup first, then shake the engine free from the tranny.

I may have missed some so I'll add as I think about it.

[PCGUY112887]

I have a few minutes at this moment.

That lower mount, all you need to do is crawl under the car, and remove the 2 retaining nuts keeping the mount onto its "cup" on the frame. Other things to do....

Bottom:
- unbolt AC compressor from bracket and set aside
- Remove starter
- Remove flexplate-to-torque converter bolts (accessible once starter is removed. You will have to turn the engine manually at the crank pulley to get at all 3)
- Disconnect exhaust downpipe (preferred), or unbolt crossover and remove rear exhaust manifold.
- Remove right side transmission-to-engine block retaining bolts (I usually just remove the 2 bolts going into the trans diff cone area, and leave the bracket bolted to the engine block)

Over:
- All hoses including upper, lower, and 2 heater hoses (nearest the throttle body
- Remove cables from TB or just unbolt the TB and set it aside
- Undo two fuel lines with special quick disconnect tool
- Get all accessories out of the way
- Unbolt P/S pump and set aside
- Remove alternator (preference of mine for added space) keep the bracket bolted to the engine
- Disconnect engine wiring harness that goes to the EGR, Throttle body, igniton module, MAP sensor, Oxygen sensor, injector harness, etc and set aside
- *** Disconnect knock sensor and oil pressure sensor wiring (You don't want to pull these apart accidentally)
- remove crossover heat shield and crossover (optional for added space to get to the bellhousing bolts)
- undo bellhousing bolts, disconnect 2 ground wires attached to 2 of these bolts *** ONE Bellhousing bolt in the BACK of the motor is facing the OTHER direction. You can only access this from the passenger side of the car. I usually use a long 1/2" extension and get at it by feel from the passenger side fenderwell.
- Support transmission from the bottom with a jack, or jackstand (use a big piece of wood to prevent gouging the pan)
- lift up evenly, be sure motor mount lifts out of its cup first, then shake the engine free from the tranny.

I may have missed some so I'll add as I think about it.

Thanks a bunch. I have put the things I'm not quite sure about in bold.

Can you explain the flexplate to torque converter bolts, or maybe a picture if you know of one? I always thought the flexplate just stayed bolted to the engine till it came out...

Right side transmission to block bolts, these are in the same location as the grounding bolts are correct? Looking at the engine, on the right side, about 6 of them total that hold the tranny to the engine?

Knocksensor... no idea where it is. Oil pressure, that's the plug in the bottom of the pan correct?

This engine is going to be pulled out, it's accessories and timing cover going on my 3500. In the mail is a cam, springs, external crank trigger, throttle body, etc. for the 3500. Along with a Powrtuner and S&S headers . Hopefully the headers fit OK, some people have said they fit fine in their W's but 1 other person mentioned having to cut off the flange on the headers for everything to fit right.

[Brian P]

Yes, the flexplate stays on the engine. What you are removing are the bolts that attach the flexplate to the torque converter. This is where the engine rotation is transferred to the transmission.

I forgot the word "bracket" in this, so I added it:

- Remove right side transmission-to-engine block bracket retaining bolts (I usually just remove the 2 bolts going into the trans diff cone area, and leave the bracket bolted to the engine block)

This is a separate support bracket between the passenger side end of the transmission and the block. If you're looking at the engine from under the hood, the bracket is actually on the LEFT, way below the alternator. You can usually see it if you take the wheel off and look thru the fenderwell.

Your knock sensor is next to your oil pressure sensor, which is next to the oil filter. The sensor on the bottom of the oil pan is for LEVEL. Disconnect all that as well.

Nice project you have going there. The guy that had to cut his flange to fit has a Monte Carlo. Not a big modification, and well worth it to avoid any issues with body contact. That's something I'd love to do to the Olds as well, but I get the feeling I'll be changing to another cam sooner than later.

What cam are you going with?

[slick]

I haven't been around much in the 3500 scene lately, but I know of atleast 1 person with a 3500 equipped Beretta, needs quite a tune though. Has that been pretty much the concensus with all of the 3500 swaps so far, needing badly tuned?

[PCGUY112887]

Since I don't have an oil pressure gauge, I guess I won't have that sensor? I gotta find a place to put my autometer oil pressure sensor on the 3500

So these bolts that attach the flexplate to the torque converter, after taking off the starter what will I see? I am just having a hard time visualizing what you mean since I have never taken anything like this apart.

I got the 1393 grind cam from Ben, not super aggressive since this will be my DD. I also got the comp cams springs, custom pushrods, a 65mm throttle body, etc.

Superdave with his 3500Z and someone else (forgot who! ) I spoke with both said that it ran decent with the stock tune. I am working with Charles from DHP and some members on the Powrtuner forums to try to make a 3500 hybrid .bin file. Basically my plan is to take my stock BIN, then try to copy all of the critical values over from a BIN from say a G6 to get a close tune. After that it would need more work for the cam, etc but at least it would be much better than trying to run the engine as a stock 3100.

[Brian P]

Since I don't have an oil pressure gauge, I guess I won't have that sensor? I gotta find a place to put my autometer oil pressure sensor on the 3500

You'll still have an oil pressure switch there for the dummy light on the gage cluster.

So these bolts that attach the flexplate to the torque converter, after taking off the starter what will I see? I am just having a hard time visualizing what you mean since I have never taken anything like this apart.

Once in there you won't necessarily see the bolts. With the starter out, you'll see the back face of the flexplate. You need to manually turn the engine and stop when the bolts come into view. There's 3 of them, 120 degrees apart. I rotate the engine using a 1/2" breaker bar on the crank pulley/dampener bolt. Turn clockwise of course. I don't have a pic of this but I'll look around.

I got the 1393 grind cam from Ben, not super aggressive since this will be my DD. I also got the comp cams springs, custom pushrods, a 65mm throttle body, etc.

Yeah I was thinking of trying one of those cams too!

Superdave with his 3500Z and someone else (forgot who! ) I spoke with both said that it ran decent with the stock tune. I am working with Charles from DHP and some members on the Powrtuner forums to try to make a 3500 hybrid .bin file. Basically my plan is to take my stock BIN, then try to copy all of the critical values over from a BIN from say a G6 to get a close tune. After that it would need more work for the cam, etc but at least it would be much better than trying to run the engine as a stock 3100.

I saw your thread on there, I'm on that forum as "Rhedalert". I did a basic tuning method like you suggested, except I went from 3100 settings to 3400 settings. This got me closer. (I have since gone to a 3400 file anyway) I'm hoping we get a 3500 file to view (though I'm just about done with tuning, just curious how the 3500 settings are), but things tend to take a LONG time over there to get anything. I waited over 4 months from the time I purchased the PT to the time I was able to TUNE my Olds. It's tough to get the ball rolling quickly over there if you don't have a 3800, but patience is the key and it will happen.

[pwmin]

sticky?

[slick]

sticky?

I'll go ahead and do that. I'll leave it open for discussion for a while.

[Brian P]

Being we'll make it sticky, I'll organize my post later on.

[slick]

We could add this to FAQ later once all discussion is done.

If someone wants to do a write-up of dropping the entire cradle for swapping engines, I'll make it a sticky as well.

[PCGUY112887]

Yay now I have a sticky on both forums!

Turn clockwise of course.

Is there anything bad about turning it the other way? While I was getting my crank pulley off my 3500 I think I turned it the other way a few times

Here is my thread on the Powrtuner forums for those who have access
http://www.powrtuner.com/index.php?showtopic=6093

I am basically being told now that my 96 PCM is no good for tuning, and that I can directly swap in a 97 PCM to give me more tuning options.

[PCGUY112887]

Also, is there any way to leave the power steering pump in the car without disconnecting it? I'm not even sure how to disconnect it, one soft line can be undone at the pump and the other is a hard line all the way back till it connects to a soft line through what looks like a non-removable connector.

I rather just keep all of the fluid in there since I don't know how to bleed a power steering system, the pump will go right back onto the 3500 since I am using the timing cover from my 3100.