'95 Cutlass 3.4 vs. '97 GP 3800SC

[airman]

I have a '95 Cutlass with a 3.4 and a few mods; 40 Series Flowmasters, K&N drop in, Bosch P4's, ect. I have owned this car for a couple of months, and after several challenges I raced my brother's ('97 Grand Prix 3800SC, Flowmasters, and other similar mods)in about a two mile drag race and SMOKED him. He never even had a chance. He was absolutely shocked. I couldn't believe it either so we did it again. Same results. This doesn't seem right. Any comments?

[Anonymous]

Your mods account for around 3 H.P. There must be something wrong with his car or he can't drive it.

[TurboSedan]

maybe he was racing with 3 fat chicks in the car with him? i'm guessing something is wrong with the GTP...

[excelsior]

he really needs to see whats wrong w/ his car :shock:

[Canada]

Perhaps his supercharger belt is undone.............I've ran a 15.4 @ 88.5 mph at the track with the Beretta (one and only pass on the 3400).........I don't know if you have....but on average should be good for a 15.8 in stock form (which you basically are)......maybe a 15.5 with a skilled driver on a good day. With a trap speed around 87-88 mph.

Here is a video of me racing a '00 GTP......

http://www.ericm555.d2g.com/pics/matt/Canada's%20Beretta%20vs%20%20Brad's%20GTP%200-110mph.wmv

From 40 mph......

http://www.ericm555.d2g.com/pics/matt/Canada's%20Beretta%20vs%20%20Brad's%20GTP%2040-110mph.wmv

2000 and 1997 GTPs carry the same Series II L67 rated at 240 hp......

[BIGBULS]

Hmmmm............since about everything pertinent has already been said (in the last 4 posts)..............I'll just add my second (or fifth).



Seriously.............a GTP will outlaunch you, outpull you, has a higher governor than you (and hits it in a LOT less than 2 miles, so right there I know something is up) and is just plain faster than you.

AND, being an automatic with at least a REASONABLY decent PCM as far as shiftlogic is concerned, it's pretty hard to fuck up (just putting it in "D" and hammering it will still get you low 15's).............especially when you have 2 MILES to run somebody down.



Are you sure it's even a GTP?

And what exactly do you mean by "smoked"? Give us some more detail here..........



Maybe you smoked him in 60-0 braking (although given earlier W-Body brakes I think even that is rather unlikely).

[airman]

Hmmmm............since about everything pertinent has already been said (in the last 4 posts)..............I'll just add my second (or fifth).



Seriously.............a GTP will outlaunch you, outpull you, has a higher governor than you (and hits it in a LOT less than 2 miles, so right there I know something is up) and is just plain faster than you.

AND, being an automatic with at least a REASONABLY decent PCM as far as shiftlogic is concerned, it's pretty hard to fuck up (just putting it in "D" and hammering it will still get you low 15's).............especially when you have 2 MILES to run somebody down.



Are you sure it's even a GTP?

And what exactly do you mean by "smoked"? Give us some more detail here..........



Maybe you smoked him in 60-0 braking (although given earlier W-Body brakes I think even that is rather unlikely).

Okay, here is some more info

Yes it is a GTP and he knows how to drive it. In the first race he shifted manually and in the second he just put it in drive. Off the line he got his front fender out in front of me. At about 5000 rpm's in 1st I started walking away. When we hit 110 I was 20+ car lengths ahead of him. Also we didn't race for the full 2 miles (that's how long the road was) and because I was so far ahead I just flashed my lights after about a mile and coasted. He knew he was beat. Everyone I talked to said there must be something wrong with his car. He is selling the car now and devoting his attention to a '79 Mustang with a built 351 Windsor

[Anonymous]

:bs:

[THe_DeTAiL3R]

Umm... yeah, that doesn't seem right.

Your car being basically stock should have got MURDERED by any properly running GTP. They especially pull hard through second gear, so you should have been left in the dust. I've drove both a 00 GTP and 2 1995 Monte Z34s.. and all I can say is the LQ1 with automatic doesn't impress me much, but the L67 screams... :shock:

[jamhoney]

I was 20+ car lengths ahead of him.

Wow it sounds like you are too fast for my modded GTP. Shit and I wanted to teach you a lesson too. I can beat a stock GTP but not by that much. :oops: :oops: :roll: :shock: :( :evil:

[jamhoney]

Is this guy the same guy that kept posting the thread about how he hates GTPs? Whats up with the GTP hate?

[digitaloutsider]

You know.. I think this is the same guy..

[Canada]

Seriously........is the supercharger belt hooked up? IIRC, its driven off a seperate belt.

[SigEpCutlass]

even if the supercharger belt isn't hooked up, a stock 3800 wouldn't get beat by 20 car lengths. I don't think that's possible even if the car were totally neglected.

[airman]

Okay everybody

1. My car is basically stock. I am not posting my mod's to make you think my car is fast. I am just giving the facts.
2. I have never posted a GTP hate message. This is the first message I have ever posted on this site. Personally, I prefer Pontiac cars (especially GP's and Bonnevilles) over any other GM car.
3. My story is the honest to god truth. I know a 3800SC produces some 30hp more than mine. I didn't think I could beat him. If you look at my original message I stated that I couldn't believe I had beaten him. I also said "this doesn't seem right. Any comments?"

If anyone with a GTP in my area wants to race me to confirm that my bro's GTP is not running right let me know.
I am not bragging about my car, I am asking you guys if me winning was possible or if something was amiss. Apparently something is amiss. Geez....

[GutlessSupreme]

Probably gave it half throttle so you wouldn't feel so bad afterwards :P

[jmacks92ste]

seems like everyone is bashing airman for no good reason. Yes his kill could never have happend to a properly running 97+ gtp, but then again we dont know anything about the running condition of the GTP (obviously it isnt good). I dont think we should give a fellow GP lover such a hard time, I mean, I could beat a corvette with my 3.4 if it had major problems.

[SigEpCutlass]

lol i guess he raced the GTP that had the siezed engine in the auction section. It siezed during the race. that's how he got the 20 carlengths lol

sorry if it seems like we're being hard on you, but we usually give people a hard time when they make their first posts in the race section. You could gone to the whatever section to say hello first :P j/k welcome. 8)

[Vegeta]

Heaven forbid an L67 doesn't win a fucking race! I hear stories of other people killing LQ1 cars that are obviously not well taken of so wtf is so hard to comprehend about this? I dont think this will happen with 2 well taken care of cars either but in this instance it very well could have. Its not like the LQ1 is a 2.5l iron duke.

"Wow it sounds like you are too fast for my modded GTP. Shit and I wanted to teach you a lesson too."

Ooo, the typical L67 owner mentality...teach us all a lesson in how to be arrogant...please. I bet you had to do a lot of research to get your car in the mid 13s. I mean, i dont think ive EVER heard of a 97+ GTP running 13s. You must have had a lot of custom shit made...ROFL!

It may not have been him with the GTP hate....but don't worry cause im posting in this thread now.

[jmacks92ste]

:werd:

[jamhoney]

I mean, i dont think ive EVER heard of a 97+ GTP running 13s

I currently have the fastest 2004 grand prix as far as I know in the World. :shock: :shock: :shock:


You can hate me and its ok if you are jealous. No worries man. :wink:

[jamhoney]

Sure I guess it is possible to beat a broken grand prix. Wow what a race.

[Vegeta]

Jealousy is ALWAYS the reason. Riceboys call me jealous, and its about as accurate as L67 owners making me jealous.

[jamhoney]

Whatever makes you feel ok shmuck.

[THe_DeTAiL3R]

Whatever makes you feel ok shmuck.

:werd:

All hail the mighty LQ1.. cause its so fricken advanced of the early 90s technology that EVERYONE should love. :roll:

I think L67 GTP owners SHOULD be able to be a little arrogant... after all their cars cost a little more than a 1992 Z34!

[Vegeta]

No problem asshole, wanna race my moped? Maybe you can teach it a lesson.

[THe_DeTAiL3R]

someone's got their manties in a bunch :lol:

[Vegeta]

I dont see any LQ1 owners talking shit though canadian dumbass. Your feeble little mind can't even comprehend the DOHC so you just talk shit. "I dont want one cause I wouldnt be able to work on it" is what you have said....so I think its best for you to shut the fuck up. Of course the GTP costs more than a 92 Z34...its called inflation.

They aren't a "little" arrogant either, but then again you aren't on clubgp to witness their attitude first hand. You havent been around the W body community for 5+ years.

[THe_DeTAiL3R]

gotta love how the racing section always ends up turning into a giant ego trip :P

I never said that I WOULDN'T BE ABLE to work on a 3.4.. I just don't want to. For those who can make one with a 5-speed "quick" than thats great. I'm sorry if I'm not special enough to have a huge interest in that particular engine, although I DO drive an old wreck and fix most things on it myself and manage to keep it running.

Just wait till the next generation of RWD mid-size cars replace the current GTP... whether its a 3900 or whatever. Than nobody will give a shit about any FWD engines and THEY will be the arrogant ones! It makes me want to get out of the whole "w-body scene".

[jamhoney]

Maybe you can teach it a lesson.

Jesus man it was just playful baiting, nothing serious. Calm down, breathe in breathe out. I should have put some sort of smiley there.


:D :) :D :) 8) :lol: :wink: :) :D :D :) 8) 8) :lol: :o :o :o :lol: 8) :) :D

[BIGBULS]

You havent been around the W body community for 5+ years.

But I have...........



Look. I have owned an LQ1 5 speed for over 7 years. It didn't get modded (beyond a K&N drop-in) because a) it was always breaking SOMETHING (although nothing MAJOR), and b) because the aftermarket was and is, pretty limited.

My car only saw the dragstrip once (running a pair of 15.7's and 16.0..........because it was my very first dragstrip experience and I didn't really know how to get it out of the hole at a strip........street yes, strip NO), but it DID see a lot of action on the street, and rarely lost (mostly because I know how to pick my races). It also saw literlly thousands of miles of 100+ mph cruising (being stationed on the west coast and having family in the midwest will do that), and bounced off it's 125mph governor 500+ times (and no I never bought a chip after seeing Aaron Lephart's [do you remember him?] dyno comparisons).

Sufice to say, out side of it's crankiness, I loved my LQ1 Grand Prix.

BUT.

It IS slower than even a stock L67. Period.

I may not like some 97+ owners attitudes either (some are over-arrogant ass-faced dickholes [I'd LOVE to see a 12 second GTP owner start being an arrogant prick on SR20DEforum........too many little Sentra's on there that are just as fast or faster :P ]), but I DO acknowlege the fact that they are fast.............and VERY easy to make faster.

I also know you (Vegeta) don't really like me, and make the occaisional derisive comment about me because some of my information is "old" and/or not 100% correct about LQ1's (BTW......I looked........you WERE right.........LQ1 TB's are 64mm..........the 67mm *I* originally quoted was what TDC and RC engineering were boring them out too :D ), but *I* am not one of the arrogant L67 boosters. I just go off of the evidence I've seen first hand and from reliable sources, and that evidence says that except in RARE circumstances, and L67 will ALWAYS beat a similarly modded LQ1.

Period.



So.........perhaps a "Calm down" might be in order? :wink:

[BIGBULS]

And Canada might have a point............

DID/DOES the GTP in the race story have it's SC belt ON?

I mean, I could see an NA 3800 with 8.5:1 compression and a super restrictive intake manifold (hello SC doing NOTHING) being 20+ car lengths slower than an LQ1 :lol:

[THe_DeTAiL3R]

I agree some people here need to calm down. The racing section always turns into flaming fights, and NAME CALLING and ACCUSING IGNORANCE on people is just soooo mature. :roll:

If you wanna chat engines, do that with facts and an adult level of maturity.. Hey anyone ever remember that HUGE post between Vegata and quaddriver? Holy shit was that biggest flamefest I've ever seen! :shock:

[Vegeta]

I already said that I know the stock L67 will beat the stock LQ1 auto....that wasnt the point. The point for me was it seemed almost impossible under any condition for some people to believe that the LQ1 could beat the L67 in a race. Then the expected L67 owner response comes in to teach the LQ1 owner a lesson. WTF! If it was a joke, then yes, a smiley would have helped.

I only read this thread because I wanted to see what the L67 owners would be saying about a race with the LQ1. I was surprised to see this time the L67 lost...and I knew it was gonna get some shit for it. This is why I stay out of the race stories section usually, and why i wont be back in it again.

[Canada]

I love the racing section on message boards. :)

[Vegeta]

If its gonna be a flamefest, may as well go all out. This one is kinda weak:P

[BIGBULS]

If its gonna be a flamefest, may as well go all out. This one is kinda weak:P

OK............you are gay, Canada is a fag, and I'm a big fat homo myself..........

Is that good for name calling :lol:

Oh..........and L67 owners are a bunch of pole-smoking, doughnut-punching queers that run their cockholsters all the damn time about how fast their 3500lb porkers are in the 1/4 mile.

[THe_DeTAiL3R]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I should have kept that slow assed 89 Jetta we had. Hell, all it needed was a big bodykit, stickers, fart can/intake and it would be runnin' down ALL you suckas cause its a Mexican built German car!! :P

Imports OWNZ!!

[airman]

And Canada might have a point............

DID/DOES the GTP in the race story have it's SC belt ON?

I mean, I could see an NA 3800 with 8.5:1 compression and a super restrictive intake manifold (hello SC doing NOTHING) being 20+ car lengths slower than an LQ1 :lol:

Yes the supercharger was operating during the races and his boost gauge was registering normal readings. However, I did remember one thing. He is running with no cat and since his car is OBD II it has a downstream O2 sensor, am I correct? Thusly, his car is running in open loop because his O2 is giving bad readings. Would this make enough of a difference to account for the loss of performance. He insists that the car is faster with the cat removed.

[Canada]

Nope......that second O2 sensor does nothing as far as fuel and spark are concerned.....its only for emissions.

*Edited for me being a dumbass.

[Vegeta]

2nd cat? They have an O2 sensor after that cat to make sure its working properly. If he doesnt have the O2 simulator its gonna throw a code at least. I have no idea if it affects performance or not but it certainly wont like the cat not working if it doesnt have the O2 sim.

[EurosportZ34]

It's getting pretty hot in here! :wink:

I just gotta say good kill airman...even though the L67 was prolly broken of some sort. It's true that the stock L67 will beat the stock LQ1. :cry: Pontiac had to go and up the competition by throwing a S/C on there and speeding everything up.

Try racing a N/A 3800 GP GT...that should be a better race for ya.

[BIGBULS]

2nd cat?

I think he meant the 2nd O2 sensor AFTER the cat.

[Brian P]

there was nothing on TV, so I read this thread. Now onto the sugar OD :x

[Canada]

Yeah.....second O2 sensor.........duh.