Cutlass VS Sunfire VS TGP

[91oldscutlass]

This was one of those days where ya win some and ya lose some. Not sure what car our W-Body friend here in Warsaw Indiana has...But if he has a red TGP...then he is the one that made the race I was in against a Sunfire look really good in his favor!!! :lol: I was at Wally World and when I was heading back into town just under HWY 30 at the light this Sunfire pulled up with a chick driving it...I had my stereo up so she revved her motor up and got my attention...The light turned green and it was on!! I was killing that Sunfire....Out of nowhere came this red TGP and that was all she wrote...it whooped both of our asses!! It was great!!!

[excelsior]

thats kinda funny....i did that once to a neon & a zx2 lol

[mfewtrail]

I think "kadoi" on the board is from near there and he drives a red TGP, not sure if he has it on the road now or not though...don't believe I've seen him post here in a while.

[BIGBULS]

thats kinda funny....i did that once to a neon & a zx2 lol

And you were driving what?

A manual trannied ZX2 or DOHC Neon should be fast enough to beat ANY of the non LQ1, L36 or Turboed W Bodies in stock form, and enough to make at least the LQ1 autos sweat..........

[rudefyet]

heck even a SOHC neon if driven well would whoop up on an auto 3.1 :lol:

you gotta take in to consideration most kids with Neons and ZX-2s can't drive worth shit...trust me i've rode with some of my friends it's sad

every kid i've rode with (i'm 19 BTW) rides the clutch real bad every gear...they take forever to change gears...it's funny...i have a friend who complains his camaro is slow yet he does just what i described...I just laugh :lol:

I've killed people i wasn't supposed to in a 92 Accord LX...just cause i can actually drive a standard :lol:

not to brag but everyone that's ridden with me says I'm best driver they've ridden with...i wrecked once when i was 16 (changing a cd and someone slammed on there brakes in front of me)...but anyways I miss drifting around corners in my 240SX :cry: cause i was the only person i know who could do it right

Sorry off topic again...proceed as usual

[93CutlassSupreme]

thats kinda funny....i did that once to a neon & a zx2 lol

And you were driving what?

A manual trannied ZX2 or DOHC Neon should be fast enough to beat ANY of the non LQ1, L36 or Turboed W Bodies in stock form, and enough to make at least the LQ1 autos sweat..........

i've never raced a manual ZX2, but an auto ZX2 is an easy kill for a N/A 3.1

[BIGBULS]

i've never raced a manual ZX2, but an auto ZX2 is an easy kill for a N/A 3.1

I wouldn't say the autos are an EASY kill...........they'll run low 17's just like a 3.1L W Body.........they ARE more sensitive to not powerbraking off the launch though...........so a bad driver is more of a factor.

Manual ZX2's are good for 16 flat or very high 15's, and ZX2 S/R's will go low 15's with no problem at all.........stock.

[93CutlassSupreme]

i've never raced a manual ZX2, but an auto ZX2 is an easy kill for a N/A 3.1

I wouldn't say the autos are an EASY kill...........they'll run low 17's just like a 3.1L W Body.........they ARE more sensitive to not powerbraking off the launch though...........so a bad driver is more of a factor.

Manual ZX2's are good for 16 flat or very high 15's, and ZX2 S/R's will go low 15's with no problem at all.........stock.

i had no problem racing a ZX2, at 45 i was a couple of car lengths ahead of him, and i didn't powerbrake off the line, i gave it half throttle off the line and then i hammered it

[god910]

Kadoi was here in Muncie w/ me, but I haven't heard from him in awhile either. I think Ben (Vegeta) lives in warsaw, but he doesn't have a TGP. I think he knows someone that does though.

[91oldscutlass]

yeah I was talking about Ben...I didnt know what car he had.

[kadoi]

as you guys probably know by now it wasnt me....my TGP has been sitting FOREVER. :evil:

[god910]

FWIW, I'll be in warsaw on (I think) the 27th of July. My g/f's family is having some kind of get together, and they said Warsaw, and I said, "I'm in." Veggie, I'll have some .bins for you to take a look at, and 91Cutty, I'll have an asswhopping fer ya. So you can tell all yer friends you got beat by a 5 speed TGP. :lol:

[excelsior]

thats kinda funny....i did that once to a neon & a zx2 lol

And you were driving what?

A manual trannied ZX2 or DOHC Neon should be fast enough to beat ANY of the non LQ1, L36 or Turboed W Bodies in stock form, and enough to make at least the LQ1 autos sweat..........

ummm even a 3100 can make short work of an auto zx2 & neon

[BIGBULS]

ummm even a 3100 can make short work of an auto zx2 & neon

For auto variants of these cars, yes....it can..........kind of.

1st gen auto trannied Neons have that wonderful 3 speed trans that makes them DIRT slow compared to their manual counterparts.

How dirt slow? How about 17.5-18.0 for auto trans cars (SOHC and DOHC), vs 15.5-16.0 for DOHC manuals and around 4 tenths slower for SOHC manuals.

Big difference huh?



Auto ZX2's are a bit better (they have 4 gears and a much shorter axle ratio), but are still handicapped by being a 4 cylinder AUTO :D They can run low 17's, but as I said are pretty driver intensive for an auto trans car.

One of these *could* match a 3100 W Body (it'd make it work at least), but would probably lose more often than not.

Same story with manual trannied cars though...........ZX2 manuals run high 15's, and S/R's run low 15's..............BIG difference.

[excelsior]

these zx2's youve driven mustve been pretty dang good.....basically im talking from my personal experieince driving these cars....and ive driven a 3.1 w body (93 lumina) and i think that would beat both cars(rental car & friends when he was too tired to drive) fairly easily

[BIGBULS]

these zx2's youve driven mustve been pretty dang good.....basically im talking from my personal experieince driving these cars....and ive driven a 3.1 w body (93 lumina) and i think that would beat both cars(rental car & friends when he was too tired to drive) fairly easily

That's weird.

I have matched a ZX2 Sport 5 speed (owned by one of my friend's) in my old SE-R when it was stock (the SE-R ran 15.6 at this stage), and from a 5mph roll it was DEAD even to 85mph...............like we were within 2ft of each other all the way up.

He had nothing more than a K&N drop-in, and had run it previously in stock form and gotten a 16.0 (with improvement to be made).


On the other hand you have 3.1L W-Body's that run mid to low 17's............


I think it's likely that you just aren't used to higher revng engines (or was it just that both ZX2's you've dealt with were auto's?). I mean, driving around town at low rpm in my NX feels fairly weak as nothing much happens until 4500-5000rpm, but since my gears are spaced so closely together, and it DOES pull so hard up high, it IS actually reasonably fast.

The old 'butt-dyno' just isn't the most accurate thing around.

[excelsior]

both those zx2's were auto's....maybe i forgot to mention it, but ive never driven a zx2 stick.....hell ive never even seen a zx2 manal lol

[Vegeta]

I dont know anyone in this town, so its no one I know. I drive a white GP with a red trunk lid and I certainly dont race people in it. Maybe on some turns since the suspension is fairly tweaked but its just my daily driver at the moment. By july i should have my DOHC 5 speed in there along with the cutty interior:)

[91oldscutlass]

Now Ben I seen you a couple of days ago. The day I was supposed to come and see you my computer fried and I didnt have your addy wrote down to come over and see ya...sorry.

[93CutlassSupreme]

i guess i have to say it again.

a 3.1 W will roast an auto ZX2

i'm not going by numbers here. that's from personal experience. i'm tired of all this number game bullshit that's been going on here.

[BIGBULS]

i guess i have to say it again.

a 3.1 W will roast an auto ZX2

i'm not going by numbers here. that's from personal experience. i'm tired of all this number game bullshit that's been going on here.

The thing is, numbers MEAN something.

You may very well have beaten 1 or 2 ZX2 autos. But they CAN put down numbers that are the equal of a 3.1L W-Body...........which means the CAR is as quick.............but as I also pointed out, having less torque at low rpm means they are a lot more sensitive to not being powerbraked...........so it's a LOT easier for somebody to fuck up their run against you.

You see?

[93CutlassSupreme]

am i the only one annoyed here?

i guess we need to start recording and posting videos of our races to prove what really happened, because some members doubt every race posted here

[BIGBULS]

am i the only one annoyed here?

i guess we need to start recording and posting videos of our races to prove what really happened, because some members doubt every race posted here

I think you are getting annoyed because you aren't reading my posts correctly.

I didn't say that you didn't beat a ZX2 auto. I said that the CAR is AS faster (or a nose faster) than your Cutlass (or any 3.1L MFI auto W)..............but because they lack the instant off the line torque, they are a LOT more sensitive to bad DRIVERS (they NEED to be powerbraked).

Also, in a light to light streetrace (that doesn't get above 50-60mph) a ZX2 auto likely WOULD lose to your car (by a car length or so)..............but in the full 1/4 mile it likely wouldn't..........lots of variables here..........but going by the numbers you can get a pretty good idea of what will happen at various speeds.

Make more sense now?

[93CutlassSupreme]

am i the only one annoyed here?

i guess we need to start recording and posting videos of our races to prove what really happened, because some members doubt every race posted here

I think you are getting annoyed because you aren't reading my posts correctly.

I didn't say that you didn't beat a ZX2 auto. I said that the CAR is AS faster (or a nose faster) than your Cutlass (or any 3.1L MFI auto W)..............but because they lack the instant off the line torque, they are a LOT more sensitive to bad DRIVERS (they NEED to be powerbraked).

Also, in a light to light streetrace (that doesn't get above 50-60mph) a ZX2 auto likely WOULD lose to your car (by a car length or so)..............but in the full 1/4 mile it likely wouldn't..........lots of variables here..........but going by the numbers you can get a pretty good idea of what will happen at various speeds.

Make more sense now?

i'd love to take on a ZX2 in the quarter. if i can stay ahead of a 16 valve Focus at 60, i'm sure a ZX2 wouldn't be a problem. also, do you mean FASTER, or QUICKER? big difference there.

[BIGBULS]

i'd love to take on a ZX2 in the quarter. if i can stay ahead of a 16 valve Focus at 60, i'm sure a ZX2 wouldn't be a problem. also, do you mean FASTER, or QUICKER? big difference there.

ZX2's are actually quicker (and faster) than Focus'. They are lighter (by ~250lbs), geared better and have a more useful powerband (it doesn't die on the top end like later Zetec's, although it DOES make less torque) in their Zetec variant than the Focus Zetec.

As for how a ZX2 auto compares to a 3.1L MFI W Body......

They are faster (trap speed) and AS quick (or a touch quicker) in the full 1/4 mile. But..........a lot more sensitive to shithead drivers than the torquey 3.1......

[excelsior]

foci are REALLLYYYYY bad from the one we had on vacation(for someone who makes as much $$$ as my dad does he sure is cheap)

[91oldscutlass]

Now damn it guys!!! Dont make me bring out the big boy and whoop everyone!!!! :lol:

[TGPilot]

Ummmm...my 1989 Celica ST with 183,xxx miles walked a ZX2 manual this morning on my way to work. He was trying to play with me in traffic and I am sure he was trying to race me! When we got to the last light in Pueblo heading East on HWY 50 he lined up next to me and he was talking shit out his window...I told him to shut his frickin mouth and drive like he stole the car. The light went green and he launched way harder than me. Once I got moving I pulled on his door. Yelled to him if that was all he had! :lol: He was rappin the motor to redline everyshift and I walked 6 car lengths on him by the time we got 1 mile down the road...at 120 MPH he backed out of it or hit his speed limiter...don't care which but the ZX2 5-speed is a FUCKIN pooch if my winter beater can walk him!! :roll:

*edit* my super duper Toyota mod that is in place...K&N drop-in filter! God I love it when people consider a filter as a mod!! :lol:

[BIGBULS]

Ummmm...my 1989 Celica ST with 183,xxx miles walked a ZX2 manual this morning on my way to work. He was trying to play with me in traffic and I am sure he was trying to race me! When we got to the last light in Pueblo heading East on HWY 50 he lined up next to me and he was talking shit out his window...I told him to shut his frickin mouth and drive like he stole the car. The light went green and he launched way harder than me. Once I got moving I pulled on his door. Yelled to him if that was all he had! :lol: He was rappin the motor to redline everyshift and I walked 6 car lengths on him by the time we got 1 mile down the road...at 120 MPH he backed out of it or hit his speed limiter...don't care which but the ZX2 5-speed is a FUCKIN pooch if my winter beater can walk him!! :roll:

*edit* my super duper Toyota mod that is in place...K&N drop-in filter! God I love it when people consider a filter as a mod!! :lol:

Well, since you'd need to run ~15.5 (@16.5 at your altitude) to beat a decently driven ZX2 manual by about 6 car lengths, and NO Celica ST has ever been that fast..............

I would conclude that said ZX2 DRIVER was a member of the Ape family, OR the car was an auto (although if he spun his tires hard out of the hole that is unlikely).



Go look around..............ZX2 manuals will run anywhere from 15.7-16.9 (15.9-16.2 seems to be the average with a good driver), with autos anywhere from 16.8-18.1 (average is 16.9-17.2 well driven).

And ZX2 S/R's............I've heard of them going as fast as 15.3 100% stock (higher 15's being the average).




Oh, and stock ZX2 ECU's are governed at 106mph (S/R's are NOT governed though).

Plus I doubt your Celica ST was going an ACTUAL 120mph (speedometers can be pretty optimistic).............the last couple generations of Celica ST's (the two previous to current) would all run into a wall of air by 110mph or so........

[91oldscutlass]

Are we still arguing about this crap???? to hell with the junk ass fords!!! A good FORD is a Dead FORD along the road!!!!!!

[93CutlassSupreme]

Are we still arguing about this crap???? to hell with the junk ass fords!!! A good FORD is a Dead FORD along the road!!!!!!

:D

[BIGBULS]

Are we still arguing about this crap???? to hell with the junk ass fords!!! A good FORD is a Dead FORD along the road!!!!!!

Hey..........I never said they were a GOOD car (I think they are even uglier than my NX), but they are reasonably fast (for a little econo-rocket).

:wink:

[TGPilot]

Plus I doubt your Celica ST was going an ACTUAL 120mph (speedometers can be pretty optimistic).............the last couple generations of Celica ST's (the two previous to current) would all run into a wall of air by 110mph or so........

I will take a video with my digital camera and then I will post my gear ratio for my car and you can figure out the speed for yourself. I ran side by side (not racing it took about 2 miles for me to get to speed...just playing) with a friends WS6 Trans Am at 120 MPH with two other people in my car. His speedo said 125, mine said 120...:flip: :lol:

*edit* I am not arguing...just trying to show that the ZX2 of any year or version is the second biggest and ugliest PILE OF SHIT next to a Yugo or my 1989 Celica ST that has ever driven on US highways!! :lol:

[BIGBULS]

Plus I doubt your Celica ST was going an ACTUAL 120mph (speedometers can be pretty optimistic).............the last couple generations of Celica ST's (the two previous to current) would all run into a wall of air by 110mph or so........

I will take a video with my digital camera and then I will post my gear ratio for my car and you can figure out the speed for yourself. I ran side by side (not racing it took about 2 miles for me to get to speed...just playing) with a friends WS6 Trans Am at 120 MPH with two other people in my car. His speedo said 125, mine said 120...:flip: :lol:

I'm not arguing really either..........although my 110mph "wall of air" might have been a touch low, since the ST's have a low .31 C.D. due to their skinny tires..............still, hitting 120ish mph is going to be hard with only 115hp.

I suppose 120mph (@5500rpm in 5th gear) might be possible under the right conditions (although I have read before that your car MAY have a governor at ~112mph....not sure on that though).............a tailwind perhaps? :wink:



BTW........I KNOW your gear ratios :D

1st 3.285
2nd 2.041
3rd 1.322
4th 1.028
5th 0.820
Axle 3.74

And you stock tire size is 185/70R13 correct?

[TGPilot]

BTW........I KNOW your gear ratios :D

1st 3.285
2nd 2.041
3rd 1.322
4th 1.028
5th 0.820
Axle 3.74

And you stock tire size is 185/70R13 correct?

Actually stock on the GT is 185/70/13, on the ST it is a 160/80 R13 but those little bicycle tires scared the hell out of me. I put 185/70/R13 on it last year and it doesn't slosh around bends in the road! :lol: