WOW, found a triple black convertible Cutlass! [Archive]

GnatGoSplat

08-30-2002, 06:33 PM

For awhile my wife was thinking about selling her Cutty and buying a new one. She wanted a triple black Cutty convertible with the "old" interior so that we could retrofit an 88-91 gauges cluster. I wanted it to be a '94 so it'd have the newer style rear calipers, park brake, etc. We sort of gave up on the idea since we figured to specifically get a 94 triple black convertible would require significant travel... and then we'd have the problem of trying to find her old Cutty a good home.

Well, I can't hardly believe it... we found a 94 triple black Cutty convertible while out house hunting. Local and everything. 118k miles. Every option except HUD. It's got leather, CD, steering wheel controls, climate control, 3.4 DOHC. It's not in perfect condition, but ok considering it's 6-years old. Asking price is $5500 which is pretty steep. Edmunds thinks Dealer Retail on it is $3700 with Private Party price being $2500. Dealer Trade-in is $1800. I was thinking to offer $3000, not sure if they'd take it though!

musthavemuzk

08-30-2002, 06:38 PM

ok insert newbie question here.

what exactly does triple black mean?

we stopped into the chevy dealer on wed night and they had a 94 sea green coupe for 5200. or was it a 95? anyways we just drove by it without stopping. as i am happy with mine for now. plus no moneys for another car.
always on the look though.

Monty

GnatGoSplat

08-30-2002, 06:49 PM

Triple black = black body, black top, black (actually graphite) interior.

musthavemuzk

08-30-2002, 06:55 PM

SWEEEEET
thanx for the clarification

sounds like a nice ride

Monty

Brian P

08-31-2002, 01:12 AM

Shawn, do you want a 3.4 DOHC with 118k though? If they're asking that much, they'd better have service documents laminated!

Vegeta

08-31-2002, 08:35 AM

From a tear down I did as well as others I have heard about...the DOHC ages gracefully, just like your pushrod motor. You will probably find the cross hatching still on the cylinder walls as well as a good compression reading. Springs dont seem to have a problem with valve float even with 136k on the clock either so unless its just not running...i wouldn't worry about the motor. Yeah, normal maintenance like the belt and the alt but thats about all you need to worry about.

GnatGoSplat

08-31-2002, 09:13 AM

I have mixed feelings about the DOHC... on the one hand, I think I'd really like having something different - I don't currently have a W-body with a DOHC engine. I also like that it's got 200-something HP so it should propel that convertible with sufficient power.

On the other hand, alternators aren't as easy to replace on it as a pushrod motor, and I've never had an alternator last past 3-years. My wife doesn't notice the warning signs of a failing alt, so it usually dies somewhere far away. With the 2.8, I could quickly swap the alt on site and drive the car home. With the 3.4 DOHC, if I have to jack it up and pull wheels off, the car would need to be towed home and we live almost an hour out of town so it'd be a hefty tow fee. Plus, there's the annoying belt that needs changed, the oil pump drive that's virtually impossible to get to, and other service headaches. When I see on the boards that someone blew an engine, it's usually the 3.4 DOHC.

Well, I think I definitely wouldn't give asking price for it. Edmunds is what I'd go by pretty strictly.

Jeorge

08-31-2002, 09:32 AM

why is the 3.4L DOHC a high mant....?? I figured it wouldnt be that bad if you just changed the timming belt on a Reg basis? say every 50K or so, and heck to get it changed before it brakes would probly make it cheaper to get replaced I would think.

other then that D@mn belt what would make it high mant...??

91CuttyConv

08-31-2002, 04:28 PM

The 3.4 is high maintence for many reasons. Number one being not much at all is easy to get to. Let the oil change go a mile past 3000 and you'll hear that pump knocking like an unwanted in-law at your front door. However, I must say if you get that motor early on in its life and baby it, it should last a good long time. Problem is most people who buy cars buy them and drive them, some don't even know how to open the hood, the trick is buying the right car from the right person. In fact my friend had to sell his 92 Z34 because he could no longer afford the cost of maintaining it. Sorry to be so bleak :)

Jason
Munster, IN
1991 Olds Cutlass Supreme (3.1 and proud of it)

GnatGoSplat

08-31-2002, 08:05 PM

Well, we have 4 vehicles now, so it's not like it'd be a disaster if the 3.4 gave me any problems. :lol:

GnatGoSplat

08-31-2002, 10:25 PM

I went out today and looked it over again (wrote down the owner's phone # this time). Here are the pics:

http://www.w-body.com/Temp/PICT0133sm.jpg
http://www.w-body.com/Temp/PICT0134sm.jpg

Now, I'm not sure what I should offer for it realistically.
In the window, the guy's got a print out of nadaguides.com where it says:

"Average Trade In $6175; Average Retail $7800".
He is asking $5500obo.

Well, Edmunds is (I think) a lot more accurate. Edmunds says:

Average Condition
Trade In $1825; Private Party $2550; Dealer Retail $3790

Clean Condition
Trade In $2373; Private Party $3255; Dealer Retail $4743

The car has 118k miles. Every option except HUD. Now this car has some wear. Several door dings on the driver's side. The paint has lots of light scratches and needs buffed. The clearcoat is dull under the driver's door. One of the exhaust tips is a bit bent. The passenger side rear taillight needs replaced, and the quarter panel and bumper near the taillight needs to be repainted. The driver side "A" pillar panel on the outside needs repainted. The top is in okay condition, but there are some spots on the edges around the rear window that are worn so white fibers are showing. The VOLUME button on the steering wheel controls is worn completely white. The leather is not torn, but has what appears to be deep wrinkles or cracks in it. Considering that this car needs some body work (tailight especially), I would consider it to be closer to Edmund's "Average" condition than "Clean".

What do you think? I'm going to go test drive it Sunday at 3pm. Would a $3000 offer be insulting, or about right?

Brian P

08-31-2002, 10:29 PM

you tell him, after u drive it, that when he realizes nobody is buying it for months and it's just sitting, to call you immediatly! With body damage and rough edges, I'd say your offer is right on the dot!

musthavemuzk

08-31-2002, 11:44 PM

i am with Brian.
might wanna have a print out of your own in your back pocket to show your point of view.
there is also www.kbb.com kellys blue book

while it sounds good. once you came back with pics and some more details on its condition. i would not be offering what he is asking.

good luck

Monty

Lee

09-01-2002, 01:17 AM

If he's insistent about getting more than you want to pay and you're still thinking of buying it...I'd hit him up for a guarentee of labor on the alt for one year.

I keep thinking about the 3.4 and would have to at least bug the dealer about it, never hurts.

As to him being insulted by price, my old friend offers rediculous prices for cars and sometimes the guy is afronted and won't even talk to him. But other times he walks away with a steal. He paid $2800 for my Regal in 1997 with a driver side front fender dent and a hood crimp in that corner. I paid him $3300 a week later.

GnatGoSplat

09-01-2002, 05:36 PM

Well, we went and looked at it. It seems to have a whole lot of things that need work:

- The gray fake woodgrain on the switchplate is worn off in spots so silver aluminum shows through. It will need to be replaced.
- The dome/maplight assembly on the roll bar will need to be replaced as it has cracks on it and the buttons don't push in like they're supposed to.
- Aftermarket alarm system was clicking away the whole time, I think it needs removed.
- One bracket is broken on the convertible top so it doesn't go all the way down smoothly.
- one of the rear window switchplates was sticking out and needed to be pushed back in.
- Passthru door broken off.
- Center arm rest needs recovered.
- Shifter is super duper loose and sloppy, I think the assembly needs replaced.
- Gas pedal is super loose, I think the spring in the throttle body needs replaced.
- Engine was surging when it was cold (he claimed it was due to having been washed and water got in the spark plug areas).
- I had to crank it twice to get it started.
- The 3.4 DOHC is more powerful than the 2.8, but it doesn't seem nearly as powerful as the one in my friend's 95 Monte Z34, so I think it may be out of tune or maybe the cams are out of time. Or perhaps a bad FPR?

Although I was tempted to offer him less, I went ahead and offered him $3000 anyway. I gave him the printouts from Edmunds showing how $3000 is more than reasonable. He said, "well, that's almost half of my asking price." After a lengthy silence, he said "Give me your name and number and I'll think about it".

musthavemuzk

09-01-2002, 08:28 PM

good luck

not sure i would be buying it, but since you already have drivable cars this could be a project for you to work on.
i would love more than one car but can only drive one at a time. so i only have one.

Monty

Lee

09-01-2002, 11:16 PM

Are you looking for a fixer upper? It sounds like the car was owned by a half rich #ss who just beat the crap out of it. They probably took $1500 on a trade in cause they knew it was done for. And didn't care because they had money to play with. He's probably out thrashing another sweet car to his hearts content.

I looked at a 94 CS in black/graphite 2 years ago. The guy wanted $4700 for it. It looked as if it had spent its life behind a gravel truck. Broken fog light, headlight, paint abraided right off the whole nose and airdam area, scratches all over, some really deep. The engine, which should have had way more power than my 91, was tired, really tired. The interior was great though. I told him it'd be hard to give him even $3000 and he balked at me. I told him my 91(Regal) was 3 times the car even dented and that he should test drive both to see what I mean. He balked again saying that the guy who drove it 130 miles from the cities loved it and said if he needed a car he'd have bought it. I was thinking no way!

The dealer may call you but from all I've read of your posts and web site..this ain't the one for you. Start sweet and personalize/perfect. I get hooked on needful cars also but persevere...your's is still out there being treated like a prize by somebody.

Lee

GnatGoSplat

09-02-2002, 01:44 AM

Actually, this guy is not claiming to be a dealer. The car is just parked in a business parking lot with a "For Sale" tag taped to the windshield and the guy's home and cell phone #'s.
He says he bought it with 26k miles on it and bought himself a used Cadillac. Then his wife drove it back and forth to town every day. I don't know if I believe his story just because the car has a high school parking permit on the windshield and the guy lives in a different city. It also has a college parking permit on the windshield as well. Seems to me the car was driven by a younger person. I'm still trying to find someone with a Carfax account that can run the VIN so I can verify that he's the original owner. He claims to have bought the car a long time ago to relive his more youthful days, but he talks like a used car dealer.

The rest of the paint and body is in fairly good condition.
Well, it's not unusual for me to buy a fixer upper. I know there are Cutty convertibles in better condition, but this one being triple black is very important. My wife says her dream car is a triple black Cutty convertible... any other color combo and she's not interested. We saw a dark green one with tan top - she didn't even want to look at it. The triple black ones are definitely rare, especially locally.

musthavemuzk

09-02-2002, 07:51 AM

Anonymous

09-02-2002, 08:27 AM

Hey Shawn pm me the vin#. I might know someone who can run it on carfax.

MaD

09-03-2002, 09:48 AM

I saw a Triple Black 94 Drop-Top by my house. I don't know how many miles, or how much the dealer wants for it, but the car is in mint condition, it has absolutely NO dings on it, and the top is flawless.

It's a "special edition" (it has the chicago skyline on the door) and it's a DOHC.

I like in Burbank, IL, the car is in Oak Lawn, I believe. It's a beautiful car, I would buy if in a heartbeat if I had the money.

I'll try to get some more info on it today! :)

-MaD-

GnatGoSplat

09-03-2002, 10:00 AM

stories sure don't match the facts you are seeing Shawn.
about the car fax thing....on occasion i see ppl asking someone to run one for them. is this something that takes a paid account to be able to do? or can anyone do it?
Monty

It takes a paid account.
I had a guy run a Carfax for me, I guess the guy's story checks out. He's had the car since 26,770 miles. Weird, either the stickers are really REALLY old and he never removed them (lazy) or he let his daughter drive it as her primary car.

MaD

09-03-2002, 11:41 AM

Geez, what-fuckin'-ev.

So I called the place up to get some info on the car...

I got the VIN, and it's 1G3WT35X3RD324106 (someone wanna look that up?)
It has 61,476 miles on it.

Then, I asked the price...
he said "Seventeen-Hundred"...
As I'm digging for my check-book, I said "really!?!?!"
and he's like "whoops, I mean $7,900, my name is..."
So I hung up the phone...

And that's how it went down, man.

Oh well, next time :-\
-MaD-

SuperBuick

09-03-2002, 06:18 PM

Well Shawn, here is my opinion on your situation with the triple black. Like you, I am a diehard W-Body guy, they are the cars I love and the cars I want, not something else. A while back I looked at your list of W-Bodies to have, and I must say that I have the exact same list, only perhaps just different colors. My list is a black regal GS (albeit with a 5 speed and a turbo 3.1 but they didn't make one so I'm doing it myself), a Black Lumina Z34 5-speed, a red TGP (or a white STE), and a triple WHITE Cutty convertible. So far I have the Lumina Z34 and the Regal GS. When I can afford it and have the place to put them, I WILL get the other two. The opportunity to own the triple black is not something that presents itself often, and not to metnion you have the added benefit of it being your wife's car. If my GF was into W-Bodies, I'd for sure have the TGP by now. The 3.4 is not all that bad, just requires you to have knowledge, and its obvious you do. You have your TGP, so why not get one step closer to your dream list. I know I was iffy before I took a loan to buy my Z34 last year, both about the $$ and the engine and not knowing the car, but if you feel comfortable after looking it over that it is something you can handle...why wait? You only live life once. I think that once you find the right one (perhaps this is it...all the "defects" amount to nothing more than a little elbow grease and a good amount lopped off the asking price, my Z34 was the same way), you should go for it. Worst come to worst, clean it up and sell it for $1000 more. Once its gone its gone, and then you'll be dreaming for how many more years????

GnatGoSplat

09-03-2002, 06:42 PM

Yeah, I sure would like the car, but I told myself I'm not paying a penny more than $3k and I'm sticking with it. :)

Maybe he's already sold it, I really don't know!
I'm not going to call him, because I don't want him to think I really want it.

chronic139

09-03-2002, 10:02 PM

I just did an alt. on my 3.4. Its a time consuming job but its not the worst thing you have to do in life. It took me 4 and a half and ive never even looked down that far in my engine bay yet. Luckily I got the one with 5 year warranty so when it goes in 3 ill do it myself again totally for free! yippee!

GnatGoSplat

09-08-2002, 04:47 PM

Damn, went back to that town yesterday to see if the car was still there, but it's gone. Oh well, someone paid too much!

Brian P

09-08-2002, 05:05 PM

Who in their right mind would pay that for a roughed up POS?

GnatGoSplat

09-08-2002, 05:16 PM

Not me!!! It's a bummer that someone bought it, but I'll have to keep an eye out just in case it goes back up for sale again. That 3.4 DOHC was pretty sluggish, I imagine something on it is gonna crap out pretty soon!

Brian P

09-08-2002, 05:47 PM

If getting that motor is no choice, I think it's in your best interest to get one that's been maintained and has service records, at least for the timing belt.

musthavemuzk

09-08-2002, 08:27 PM

if someone did in fact purchase it...then mayb they will get fed up with it and want to sell it down the road. and then if you choose to you can get a deal from them.
but as Brian said....i would just search for a better condition ride.

Monty

Brian P

09-08-2002, 08:54 PM

Hell, go to egay, everything's going cheap there lately!

GnatGoSplat

09-08-2002, 09:37 PM

Yeah, true, but not local!

Brian P

09-08-2002, 09:42 PM

well this isn't TOO far, and at least your wife and passenger will have the airbag :) http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1856370811 nevermind the wheels lol

GnatGoSplat

09-08-2002, 09:53 PM

WOW, those wheels are FUGLY!!!

It seems to be in better shape for a better price, but that IS pretty darn far! It's nice to have 2 airbags, but my wife really likes the digital dash and there's no way to get the digital dash in a 95. She likes the 94 climate control better, too, she thinks the buttons look better than knobs.

Looks very interesting though!!!

EDIT: LOL, I just asked her what she thought about it, and she said, "oh poop, I need digital"!!!

Brian P

09-08-2002, 10:00 PM

That's a good quality in a woman! There's actually a tri-black 94 conv on ebay MINT with a buy it now of $3900 however it's in FL!

Brian P

09-08-2002, 10:04 PM

here's the link in case she wants to view it http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1857168797

GnatGoSplat

09-08-2002, 10:10 PM

West Palm Beach! Only 1320 miles away!
Hmmm, I might be more interested if they offered free shipping. :lol:

Brian P

09-08-2002, 10:16 PM

fly in, drive home for that price :):)

GnatGoSplat

09-08-2002, 10:30 PM

Air fare for 2 is pretty expensive, especially if this guy's reserve is $3500 or so. I think I'll pass on this!
We've got bigger things to worry about right now anyway. :wink:

Brian P

09-08-2002, 10:59 PM

Bigger? Hmm! :lol: :lol: :lol:

GnatGoSplat

09-08-2002, 11:12 PM

Yep, MUCH bigger! We're under contract to buy a house! We should get it as long as the loan goes through. I can't wait! Then all but 1 vehicle will get to live indoors. :D

Brian P

09-09-2002, 09:31 AM

That's great to hear! I dont know about your area, but around here the prices of houses increased 50% in 2 years, and the demand is still high. If anybody (like my parents) bought a house before the price jump, they made out with a nice profit. Our house sold for more than they paid to have it built!

GnatGoSplat

09-09-2002, 09:56 AM

Yep, house prices have definitely increased a lot.
I'll be sure to get pics of the house as soon as we're sure it's ours - and that's pretty much up to the banks.

I just got a call from that Cutlass convertible's owner too. Seems he has NOT sold it (just moved it back home), and would go to $3500. I told him I'm pretty firm on $3000 especially since we want to close on a house. After a brief silence, he says, "well, I really need the money". So it looks like we're buying the car - it shouldn't impact our home buying just because we have a pretty sizable CD and I've saved a pretty good amount for the down payment.

Now we will have to get rid of the wife's Cutty. :(
That's sad, because I have taken care of it and nursed it back to health when it was ill. My wife and I have both formed a sentimental attachment to it!

Brian P

09-09-2002, 10:02 AM

you could always keep it around, and get rid of the TGP :) If I ever was in the market for another car, I'd surely buy her cutlass off of you!

Brian P

09-09-2002, 10:06 AM

Oh and if those 5 spokes ever go up for sale, I've got first dibs :) heheh

GnatGoSplat

09-09-2002, 10:10 AM

We would gladly sell it to you too!
I would much rather sell it to someone that I know would appreciate it, over someone who will just drive it into the ground and sell it to a salvage yard when it has a problem.

We would even take less for it just to know it's going to a good home.
I have taken care of it like it was our kid or something!

musthavemuzk

09-09-2002, 08:30 PM

CONGRATS and GOOD LUCK it seems are in order.

sure wish i had the cash i would snatch up your wifes cutty.

Monty

Brian P

09-09-2002, 08:35 PM

hehe, you said snatch ::snickers::

musthavemuzk

09-09-2002, 08:38 PM

i laugh now too after you bring it to my attention.
did not even think about it when i typed that.
but it is funny
Monty

Brian P

09-09-2002, 08:40 PM

I can go for a snickers right now :lol:

musthavemuzk

09-09-2002, 08:43 PM

i have a bag of fun size snickers in my freezer.....want one?
:)

Monty

Brian P

09-09-2002, 08:45 PM

dont know if it will make it here still frozen, thats the only way I like snickers (and milky way for that matter) well at least refrigerated!

Im glad my girlfriend thinks of me when she ventures to sam's club...30 pack of full size bars for like $8

musthavemuzk

09-09-2002, 08:48 PM

i agree it will prolly not make it frozen unless i can get some dry ice.
thought i would offer one up as i do share. despite what the rumors say. i do share. :)

sam's is it when it comes to alot of things.

Monty

cutlassdude96

09-09-2002, 09:31 PM

GnatGoSplat

09-09-2002, 09:53 PM

Ah well, it's bought & paid for! The wife just LOVES it.
It's kind of interesting, it's 1-2" lower than the 88-89 Cutty's. I never noticed that before.
I took a couple pics today, I should have turned off the flash, but due to the flash the car came out underexposed.
First thing I did when we got it home, was remove the timing belt inspection cover. The T-belt is 33mm wide. Whew! It looks to be in good shape too, I guess it won't need changed anytime soon.

http://www.w-body.com/Temp/IMGP0390.JPG
http://www.w-body.com/Temp/IMGP0391.JPG

Now I need to go through my parts catalog and order all the little things I'll need to restore it.

Cutlassdude, I'd be interested to see pics of the climate control you're talking about. Too bad even the analog dash of 95-97 is kind of cheesy anyway. Didn't it lose 2 gauges? Oil and volts? Or did it just lose 1 gauge? I think this will be a really cool 1 of a kind Cutty convertible once I get the digital gauges cluster in there... that's assuming the data stream on the ALDL is the same as 88-93... it might not be, that wouldn't be cool.

I hate to have to sell my wife's 88, but I think it has to be done. Just too many cars.

cutlassdude96

09-09-2002, 10:04 PM

They only have a temp, tach, sepdo, and fuel. I dont have a pic of the climate control at the moment. It also comes with a pass. temp control. :)

Brian P

09-09-2002, 10:05 PM

Congrats Shawn (and Penny!)

Brian P

09-09-2002, 10:06 PM

Shawn let me know what you need, there's a black interior'd convertible at a junkyard in PA that I got my quad buckets out of.

GnatGoSplat

09-09-2002, 10:26 PM

Thanks! She really loves it, but now comes the dilemma of having to let one of our Cutty's go. :( You sure you don't want another? :)

I might need a domelight that goes on the roll bar. The buttons and entire light doesn't work. I'll probably dismantle it tomorrow. The lens is cracked too, but GM Parts Direct has a new lens for $2.16 so I'm not so worried about that part.
I'd also like to get new switchplates because the paint is worn off them revealing the silver aluminum. That's weird that they went to that... the 88-89 has plastic switchplates with writing that glows at night. On this one, only the buttons glow. I'd actually rather have a 92-93 switchplate that has the lock with the LED.
That's all I can think of!

Brian P

09-09-2002, 10:30 PM

Believe me shawn, and I hope I'm not gynxing (sp?) myself when I say this, but if for some reason I have to get rid of my cutlass, or lose it some how, I'll be knocking at your door...:)

The dome light? i remember that being broken too. The switch plate was mint. Hoping to get there soon...

GnatGoSplat

09-09-2002, 10:36 PM

Cool! Thanks! See if you can nab both switchplates, I think there's some silver showing through on the passenger side one too.
It could use new steering wheel control buttons (the right side ones) too.
Oh yeah, a passenger side taillight with the lip spoiler.

Oh, and if you still have that spare or broken or whatever climate control, I could use it too. The climate control doesn't have the blue filter, so it's ugly and irritating. You can see all the unlit segments too. GM really got cheap on it. I could use the faceplate off the old one, it would look much better.

Thanks!

Lee

09-09-2002, 10:52 PM

Shawn, please keep us informed about the digital dash project. I haven't started mine yet on the Regal. There is a second smaller plug with about 4 or 5 wires that seem to have something to do with the overdrive. The rest appears to just be pinout changes from row C to Row D.

Some names are slightly different but the only wire oddity was the anti-loc. White wire verses White/Grey wire.

We did some e-mailing about it a month or so ago. Mine's out of a 1990 GS

Brian P

09-09-2002, 11:04 PM

HAHA!! Thats funny, cause I got the 93 climate control for $5, plugged it in, it was soooo ugly but it worked nice! Doesnt the radio have the filter missing too?

Ill gladly send you the older face, however you will have to separate the lens from the rest of the casing. '93-94 climate controlls mount differently, the conv uses only 2 screws total, mounted between where ours would be (middle) so you'd still need to use the stock face. Ive seen the lens removed at a yard (looks like somebody punched it) so it can be done...

the one at the yard doesnt have the wheel nor the taillights :cry: