L67 vs L36 -- 4T60-E compatible?

[donkeykongrape]

Hello everyone, I have a 92 Cutlass Supreme 3.1L (VIN T) and I am looking into possibly swapping in the famous L67. The w-body website says the L67 needs the 4T65-E transmission whereas the same exact engine, only difference being it's naturaly aspirated says it is compatible with my transmission (4T60-E)....

What's the reason why the 4T60-E won't work on the L67? I spent over $1800 getting my tranny rebuilt and I'd REALLY like to keep it. Thanks! :)

[DiscoStudd]

From my understanding, it's possible to run the Series II L67 with a 4T60-E trans (it bolts right up,) but you'll need to use the wiring and PCM from a 94-95 Regal with the L27 (3800 Series I N/A) and a custom burned chip. The 4T60-E is vacuum modulated, whereas the 65-E and 65-E HD are 100% electronic. Obviously you wouldn't want the PCM that controlled the 65-E tranny connected to a 60-E.

http://www.l67swap.com is the place you need to search.

[94CutlassXtreme]

I don't think the 4T60-e is capable enough to handle the power of either a stock or modded L67. That tranny is supposedly only able to handle 300 horse and 300 ft/lbs, yet its well known that the 4T60-e will eventually break down just by "beating" on it too much. If anything, I'd go with a 4T65-E.

[99RegalGS]

in 1996 the Series 2 L67 WAS used with a 4T60-E HD transmission. So I suggust a 96 PCM and wiring harness.

[brianteel]

use an regal 92-96 i think it was with the motor the 4t60e and a chip....

[mfewtrail]

Wait a minute, you have a "4T60-E" in your 1992 Cutlass Supreme w/ a 3.1?

[donkeykongrape]

mfewtrail, Yes???? I'm pretty sure I do.

[Prospeeder]

Only 3.4 cars go the 4T60-E 91-93 the 3.1 equppied cars got 4T60 Vacuum controlled ones, Not electronic (E) So its impossible for you to have an E trans

[mfewtrail]

mfewtrail, Yes???? I'm pretty sure I do.

Are you 100% positive? :wink: Because 3.1 cars didn't receive 4T60-E's until 1993.

[digitaloutsider]

You do not have the 4T60e.

[donkeykongrape]

Hmm, maybe you guys are right....I'm not trying to argue, I just remember my service manual saying 4T60 and perhaps my mind put the -E next to it :) Anyways...now that that's cleared up....Will the 4T60 fit in an L67?

[Prospeeder]

Nope, the computer isnt compatible with it, and im thinkin an L67 would rip up a 4T60 after awhile, if they dont last on a TGP, i highly doubt theyd last long with a 240 horse supercharged engine

[donkeykongrape]

Well that's a friggin pain in the @$$....I spent $1800 getting that thing rebuilt and I probably wont get more than $500 selling it with the engine...talk about massive money losses by doing this swap!

[Crazy K]

ummm how about instead of doing that swap, you swap in the heads and intake of a 3400 onto your block? I hear swapping the 3100 on to the 3.1 block, and swapping the 3400 ontop the 3100 block, why not go all the way? And then you need not loose your tranny! If you use the same computer you would be running the engine as a MFPI instead of as a SPFI. That would be possible, wouldn't it?

[donkeykongrape]

Well...they say anything's possible, right? But what would I be getting out of it? I know the L67 can produce some sick performance, but would the performance gain of a 3400 head on top of a 3100 block be worth the effort?

I don't know...the widespread aftermarket and possibilities of the L67 are too appealing :D Not to mention I'm definitely NOT a fan of DOHC and I hear the 3400s are a nightmare when it comes to that.

[digitaloutsider]

Not to mention I'm definitely NOT a fan of DOHC and I hear the 3400s are a nightmare when it comes to that.
I.. you're.. what??!

[Crazy K]

Well...they say anything's possible, right? But what would I be getting out of it? I know the L67 can produce some sick performance, but would the performance gain of a 3400 head on top of a 3100 block be worth the effort?

I don't know...the widespread aftermarket and possibilities of the L67 are too appealing :D Not to mention I'm definitely NOT a fan of DOHC and I hear the 3400s are a nightmare when it comes to that.

NOOBIE! :lol:

the 3.4 is a DOHC such as a 91-96 or 97 lumina might have

the 3400 would be in a car such as a 00-05 impala, it is a 3100 motor that has been redesigned, having better higher flow heads, and may have been reborded and stoked

You need to get used the fact that
3.1 is not 3100
3.4 is not 3400
4t60 is not 4t60-e

the engine evolution goes from 2.8 carbed (82-85) to TBI 2.8 (86-87) to 2.8 MPFI (88-89) top 3.1MPFI(90-93) to 3100 SPFI(94-99), to 3400 SPFI(00-05). The years are approximate, and sometimes the previous engine will still be used in another model(even for a few years), like 94 lumina is 3.1, and 94 regal, CS, and Gp is 3100.

My Next Question is... Is there actually something wrong with your engine that requires it to be replaced??? If there is not, I would just keep an eye out for the parts at a j/y. A car with an unsalvageable engine(oil pan crushed in a collision, for example) would be a good donor for the parts.

[Supreme Cutlass]

Well...they say anything's possible, right? But what would I be getting out of it? I know the L67 can produce some sick performance, but would the performance gain of a 3400 head on top of a 3100 block be worth the effort?

I don't know...the widespread aftermarket and possibilities of the L67 are too appealing :D Not to mention I'm definitely NOT a fan of DOHC and I hear the 3400s are a nightmare when it comes to that.

NOOBIE! :lol:

the 3.4 is a DOHC such as a 91-96 or 97 lumina might have

the 3400 would be in a car such as a 00-05 impala, it is a 3100 motor that has been redesigned, having better higher flow heads, and may have been reborded and stoked

You need to get used the fact that
3.1 is not 3100
3.4 is not 3400
4t60 is not 4t60-e

the engine evolution goes from 2.8 carbed (82-85) to TBI 2.8 (86-87) to 2.8 MPFI (88-89) top 3.1MPFI(90-93) to 3100 SPFI(94-99), to 3400 SPFI(00-05). The years are approximate, and sometimes the previous engine will still be used in another model(even for a few years), like 94 lumina is 3.1, and 94 regal, CS, and Gp is 3100.

My Next Question is... Is there actually something wrong with your engine that requires it to be replaced??? If there is not, I would just keep an eye out for the parts at a j/y. A car with an unsalvageable engine(oil pan crushed in a collision, for example) would be a good donor for the parts.

Sound advice

I'm looking into that project as well, it's easier than the l67 swap since you can use the same wiring, computer, p/s lines, transmission, etc. I'm planning on getting a boned 3100/3400, having the heads port and polished, then put everything on the old block with new gaskets, new cam, etc. and maybe a turbo (http://www.donkeypunchperformance.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=67&products_id=202) as well later on :D

[Crazy K]

my point exactly! Also to note... the only difficulty is that you have to fab an adapter for the EGR, since they are different.
Everything else is plug and play(though some wires may have to be extended), although you will be running the engine as a MPFI and not as a SPFI.

As a side note, I think the 4t60 may be a stronger tranny than the 4t60-e.
If i ever needed a 4t60-e. I would investigate using a 4t65-e instead.

Also one more point. The addition of an auxilary tranny cooler should be done especially if you do any upgrade that risks pumping more power into the tranny than it might be able to handle. Adding a cooler on a regular tranny coupled to the proper engine would be a good idea of itself, as it would extend the transmission service life.

[donkeykongrape]

Well...they say anything's possible, right? But what would I be getting out of it? I know the L67 can produce some sick performance, but would the performance gain of a 3400 head on top of a 3100 block be worth the effort?

I don't know...the widespread aftermarket and possibilities of the L67 are too appealing :D Not to mention I'm definitely NOT a fan of DOHC and I hear the 3400s are a nightmare when it comes to that.

NOOBIE! :lol:

the 3.4 is a DOHC such as a 91-96 or 97 lumina might have

the 3400 would be in a car such as a 00-05 impala, it is a 3100 motor that has been redesigned, having better higher flow heads, and may have been reborded and stoked

You need to get used the fact that
3.1 is not 3100
3.4 is not 3400
4t60 is not 4t60-e

the engine evolution goes from 2.8 carbed (82-85) to TBI 2.8 (86-87) to 2.8 MPFI (88-89) top 3.1MPFI(90-93) to 3100 SPFI(94-99), to 3400 SPFI(00-05). The years are approximate, and sometimes the previous engine will still be used in another model(even for a few years), like 94 lumina is 3.1, and 94 regal, CS, and Gp is 3100.

My Next Question is... Is there actually something wrong with your engine that requires it to be replaced??? If there is not, I would just keep an eye out for the parts at a j/y. A car with an unsalvageable engine(oil pan crushed in a collision, for example) would be a good donor for the parts.

Haha, OK, very much understood Crazy K....Now my next question is how much of a performance boost can I see here? And no there isn't anything wrong with my engine at this time, I just want to test my hand at souping this car up....after saving up some money for it first :)

[donkeykongrape]

http://steve.neoturbine.net/pics/cut_supreme/100_1778.jpg

So it IS a 4T60 :) Sorry for the confusion guys :shock:

[Supreme Cutlass]

18 posts later....

[TurboSedan]

i would keep your current 3.1 VIN 'T' and turbocharge it with TGP parts :D worked very well for me anyways and i'm putting much more power down than a stock L67.

[donkeykongrape]

TurboSedan, Aren't those parts extremely rare? If not where can I find em :twisted:

[TurboSedan]

i wouldn't say extremely rare. you can find all the parts seperately or just find a complete parts car (i've done it both ways). parts regularly come up in the FS section here and on ebay.

[donkeykongrape]

TurboSedan, well besides the actual T-25 turbo, what else would I need?